More Tank woes!
- Thread starter OkR33Fer
- Start date
OkR33Fer
New member
Between the corse of last night and this afternoon, my tank has shifted pretty bad.
Nitrites are on the rise, amonia is still at 0 but nitrates are showing up now as well. Ph was still low at 7.8
I was asked if i have stirred up the sand, which I don't think I have. And was then told it was beleived that my sand bed has gone anaerobic!
Does this mean that all that sand is now trash?
Nitrites are on the rise, amonia is still at 0 but nitrates are showing up now as well. Ph was still low at 7.8
I was asked if i have stirred up the sand, which I don't think I have. And was then told it was beleived that my sand bed has gone anaerobic!
Does this mean that all that sand is now trash?
OkR33Fer
New member
I tested it last night then had the reef shop test it this afternoon. Thier test showed my water was further out than my test did.
I have done 2 10% changes in the past 10 days.
It was recommended to me today that I do a 100% change and scrap the sand currently in the tank.
After talking with the wife I had a rock tumble and the sand was stirred where the rocks hit.
I have done 2 10% changes in the past 10 days.
It was recommended to me today that I do a 100% change and scrap the sand currently in the tank.
After talking with the wife I had a rock tumble and the sand was stirred where the rocks hit.
TulsaReefer
New member
Describe your sand bed, how deep is it, and what type of sand did you use (i.e. how fine was the sand)?
As for the ich, when was the last time you added anything to your tank, fish, corals, snails, etc.?
I wouldn't be taking all the sand out quite yet, I don't buy the "toxic sand" problem that is so commonly blamed for every time someone has a problem with their tank. You may cause even more problems as you'll lose a huge amount of your bacteria by doing it, and are likely to "re cycle" your tank all over.
Stirring of sand is highly overrated as a problem in my opinion. I've had my conch dig down 3 inches in my sand, as well as had a powerhead dig out big sections of sand (yeah, suction cups do wear out) and never had any real issues from either action.
Without posting the most basic levels of other parameters (hardness and calcium) there is really no easy way to determine why your pH is so low. What do you use for supplements? Do you use any type of buffer product? How much do you add, and how often?
Another thing to consider, a 10% water change will at the most change your water params by 10%. So if your pH was 7.8 and you raised it 10%, it would still be around 7.87, not much different. You will need to do large water changes to make that much difference, and more closely together than 10 days.
As for the ich, when was the last time you added anything to your tank, fish, corals, snails, etc.?
I wouldn't be taking all the sand out quite yet, I don't buy the "toxic sand" problem that is so commonly blamed for every time someone has a problem with their tank. You may cause even more problems as you'll lose a huge amount of your bacteria by doing it, and are likely to "re cycle" your tank all over.
Stirring of sand is highly overrated as a problem in my opinion. I've had my conch dig down 3 inches in my sand, as well as had a powerhead dig out big sections of sand (yeah, suction cups do wear out) and never had any real issues from either action.
Without posting the most basic levels of other parameters (hardness and calcium) there is really no easy way to determine why your pH is so low. What do you use for supplements? Do you use any type of buffer product? How much do you add, and how often?
Another thing to consider, a 10% water change will at the most change your water params by 10%. So if your pH was 7.8 and you raised it 10%, it would still be around 7.87, not much different. You will need to do large water changes to make that much difference, and more closely together than 10 days.
aaparkr
New member
I'm with Lee about the water change and the toxic sand. I've had 2-3 inches of sand in a 75 for a few years with not ill effects. I change 12 gallons of water a week and I have a denitrifier to keep nitrates down because I overfeed on purpose (unusual fish load). I've used kalkwasser to bring pH up, but 7.8 should not be enough to kill fish especially if it got there gradually. It would be stressful for some corals, but I'd think the fish would be fine with it.
My ph got down to 7.6 for a while and I missed it due to an outdated test set. I didn't understand why the buttons were all closed until I took the water in (The denitrifier caused the drop in ph, so if you should ever get one of those be sure and ask a lot of questions).
If you can, give more info on the water parameters, how much you feed and the ich situation.
Tony
My ph got down to 7.6 for a while and I missed it due to an outdated test set. I didn't understand why the buttons were all closed until I took the water in (The denitrifier caused the drop in ph, so if you should ever get one of those be sure and ask a lot of questions).
If you can, give more info on the water parameters, how much you feed and the ich situation.
Tony
I agree with the posters who discount the "sand stirring" as the cause for your water change.
First, relax on the PH - that is happening to many people, and can be partially attributed to increased CO2 in your home from furnaces running constantly, etc. It's seasonal. As suggested, just kick up your kalkwasser dosing to both increase PH and add calcium.
As for the nitirites and nitrate "on the rise",(what numbers? ) this could be result of over-feeding or something related to your treatment of ICH and the death of fish. Did you mediate your tank for the ICH? What medication did you use, if any? Medication may have killed other critters in the tank and the nitrate may be from their carcasses. Just trying to analyze what is going on with your tank.
You don't suppose the LFS is "pushing" live sand, do you? They are recommending that you completely tear down your tank and start over... sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me.
LL
OkR33Fer
New member
It's a 2-3" bed. I used Ich Attack which was claimed to be all natural and reef/ invert safe. Each time I found a fatality in my tank it was removed when it was found. I will re-test again tonight when I get home.
When tested at home the NitrItes were .25 ppm
When tested at home the NitrAtes were 0 ppm on my test
When tested at home the Amonia was 0 ppm
When tested at home the Ph was 7.8
When tested at the LFS nitrites were at least .50ppm (color was much darker than mine but they didn't have the chart out)
When tested at the LFS Nitrates were also a darker colr than mine which indicates a higher number than I got.
When tested at the LFS Ph was also 7.8.
I feed 1 time every other day, and only in small amounts. Ich was treated for 3 days past the last spot found on one of the fish.
Current fish in the tank are 1 Coral beauty, 1 Clown Sweet Lips, 1 Tang, 2 Damsels, 1 true percula and 1 chromis. I have 1 large hermit, ~100 blue legs, a sand sifting star and a horse shoe crab. I also have 2 mexican turbo snails and ~20 nassarius snails.
During the weekend I found that the stand I built for my 92G corner was not big enough. Doh! I bought new wood and built a completely new stand in preparation to make the switch if deemed nesc.
When tested at home the NitrItes were .25 ppm
When tested at home the NitrAtes were 0 ppm on my test
When tested at home the Amonia was 0 ppm
When tested at home the Ph was 7.8
When tested at the LFS nitrites were at least .50ppm (color was much darker than mine but they didn't have the chart out)
When tested at the LFS Nitrates were also a darker colr than mine which indicates a higher number than I got.
When tested at the LFS Ph was also 7.8.
I feed 1 time every other day, and only in small amounts. Ich was treated for 3 days past the last spot found on one of the fish.
Current fish in the tank are 1 Coral beauty, 1 Clown Sweet Lips, 1 Tang, 2 Damsels, 1 true percula and 1 chromis. I have 1 large hermit, ~100 blue legs, a sand sifting star and a horse shoe crab. I also have 2 mexican turbo snails and ~20 nassarius snails.
During the weekend I found that the stand I built for my 92G corner was not big enough. Doh! I bought new wood and built a completely new stand in preparation to make the switch if deemed nesc.
Serra
New member
Good thing you are doing your bigger tank! The rule for stocking a SW tank is 1 inch of adult fish per 5 gallons. When we throw in all the rest of the critters in our reef tanks we can max out the livestock load pretty quickly.
I'm sure the restaurant in Hawaii that continuously pipes their water in from the ocean gets to cheat on that rule but I try and stick pretty close to it. I count the amount of water in my sump and fug when I am figuring my tank max. I hope that is not cheating!
I'm sure the restaurant in Hawaii that continuously pipes their water in from the ocean gets to cheat on that rule but I try and stick pretty close to it. I count the amount of water in my sump and fug when I am figuring my tank max. I hope that is not cheating!
OkR33Fer
New member
The only fish that are 'large' are the sweetlips and the tang at almost 4 inches, the others are 2 inches or less.
I know the Tang is supposed to be in a 75 or larger(he was bought specifically to go in the 92g) but by that method the tank would be full with just the sweetlips, tang and the two damsels. That would make for a pretty empty tank IMO.
I know the Tang is supposed to be in a 75 or larger(he was bought specifically to go in the 92g) but by that method the tank would be full with just the sweetlips, tang and the two damsels. That would make for a pretty empty tank IMO.
TulsaReefer
New member
One thing to consider is that the lifecycle of ich is much longer than 3 days after the disappearance of the last spots. You can find details on ich at this link Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans... or over in the Fish Disease Treatment forum. Just don't be surprised if it shows back up in a few days to a week. The lifecycle is such that it seems that you've beaten it, and it comes back in cycles.
What size tank is this? Do you add any type of buffer to your water? Even a fish only tank will tend to lower pH over time as metabolic waste is acidic and will depress pH unless something is done to counter it. And with the number of fish you list, especially tangs, which are heavy feeders, you have metabolic waste. Easy fix for pH problem is get some Seachem Marine Buffer (or other similar product) and begin using it to bring the pH back to around 8.2 to 8.3. It's not something you can fix in one day, but it shouldn't take all that long.
And not to be disagreeable on fish stocking, but inches of fish per gallon really isn't a great way to measure the amount to keep in tank. A single 5 inch tang is way more load than 5 - 1 inch chromis. You have to take into account that as the size of the fish increases, their mass often increase much more then their length. And some fish are heavier feeders than others (such as tangs). Using the inch per gallon scale means that I can keep my 5 inch long purple tang in a 25 gallon tank, and we all know that wouldn't work out well for very long.
And in my opinion, fat fish are happy and healthy fish. If you are keeping too many fish for your tank, and to make up for it you decide to feed less it may not work out as well as hoped. Crowded, underfed fish are stressed fish, and stressed fish are fish that get sick quite easily.
What size tank is this? Do you add any type of buffer to your water? Even a fish only tank will tend to lower pH over time as metabolic waste is acidic and will depress pH unless something is done to counter it. And with the number of fish you list, especially tangs, which are heavy feeders, you have metabolic waste. Easy fix for pH problem is get some Seachem Marine Buffer (or other similar product) and begin using it to bring the pH back to around 8.2 to 8.3. It's not something you can fix in one day, but it shouldn't take all that long.
And not to be disagreeable on fish stocking, but inches of fish per gallon really isn't a great way to measure the amount to keep in tank. A single 5 inch tang is way more load than 5 - 1 inch chromis. You have to take into account that as the size of the fish increases, their mass often increase much more then their length. And some fish are heavier feeders than others (such as tangs). Using the inch per gallon scale means that I can keep my 5 inch long purple tang in a 25 gallon tank, and we all know that wouldn't work out well for very long.
And in my opinion, fat fish are happy and healthy fish. If you are keeping too many fish for your tank, and to make up for it you decide to feed less it may not work out as well as hoped. Crowded, underfed fish are stressed fish, and stressed fish are fish that get sick quite easily.
