move sump to basement

[jc286006]

hello all

i woke up to a solenoid valve that refills the ato tank stuck open and a flood in our livingroom not the first time something has caused problemslike this .

the wife says if it happens again i need to get rid of the tank or simplify things.

which means doing everything manually ato, waterchanges, etc.
not that i am against doing these things manually it just makes it more time consuming!

i am thinking about moving the sump, ato, and water change system into the basement

but i would need to have the overflows and returns go vertically approxiamately 12 to 13 feet and horizontally about 45 feet to get everything into a room that is already built and would make everything out of sight.

the basement is being converted into a family entertainment area so everything cant be directly below the display tank that is in our livingroom

what size return pump and style/brand would i need to do this and would the standard overflow that comes in a 90 gal all glass tank work in this scenerio?

thanks james

 

[M3P]

1. Standard overflow would work, you will just need to dial in your return pump to make sure drain can handle the flow it is receiving. (how many drains do you have and what size are they?)

2. I used a Reeflo Hammerhead Gold and absolutely loved it. There are some people that have had issues with seals leaking on them, but I never had an issue. I didn't constrict the output with a ball valve though, so that may be what causes problems for others. I had a bleed off line built into the manifold that just recirculated in the sump, but never ended up using it. The pump fed the display tank on the floor above, Skimmer, 3 media reactors, 65 gallon frag tank in basement and refugium. If you go with the hammerhead, I would make sure you get the baldor motor. I think they made models with 2 different motors.

 

[Tigé21v]

You're going to need a good pressure rated pump. Iwaki, panworld, etc. Not sure if any of the DC pumps out there can handle that kind of run.
I would seriously consider running 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" pipe to cut down on flow restriction

 

[jc286006]

it has a 1 1/4 over flow with 2- 3/4 returns i can put in any size pipe to handle the overflow and return pipe. the basement has a suspended ceiling and concrete floor with open steel truss supports for the upstairs floor (an old 2 story sunday school building) so access there is no problem i was just concerned with overflow noise and getting the correct size return pump the first time so i dont have to buy multiple pumps to get this accomplished. i have an iwaki pump rated for 11 meters of head at 17 lpm that was given to me by Pife i would just have to run a 220v circuit and find a relay to control it, but i think 17 lpm would be a little too low.

 

[Pife]

it has a 1 1/4 over flow with 2- 3/4 returns i can put in any size pipe to handle the overflow and return pipe. the basement has a suspended ceiling and concrete floor with open steel truss supports for the upstairs floor (an old 2 story sunday school building) so access there is no problem i was just concerned with overflow noise and getting the correct size return pump the first time so i dont have to buy multiple pumps to get this accomplished. i have an iwaki pump rated for 11 meters of head at 17 lpm that was given to me by Pife i would just have to run a 220v circuit and find a relay to control it, but i think 17 lpm would be a little too low.

I don't think that's that is enough flow.

 

[Schplitter]

What do you think about lining the inside of your stand with something like pond liner or having a tray made that fits inside? Then create an emergency drain to the basement or out of the house just in case this happens again. You woukd need some kind of alarm setup so you know when you have a leak. This could be as simple as an interrupted wire and a buzzer or as fancy as an apex leak pad.

Beside the large pump needed your sump would be in the basement where you don't spend most of your time. This would lead to laziness in my case and make me not check in on things as often as I do now.

 

[jc286006]

thats what i thought on the pump guess i will start looking at pumps what i have read 3-5 times DT size for flow rate plus i will have to factor in head and resistance to get the proper size pump.

on the contrary as the basement is completed we will be spending more and more time down there.

a liner,drain and alarm would be a solution which would be kind of hard to accomplish the way my stand is built its an L shape with the 90 on the long leg and a 40B was planned for the short leg, and when i built my stand i didnt allow enough room for a skimmer to be in the sump it has to be an external one so the move down stairs would open up for a larger skimmer too.

 

[Breadman03]

What do you think about lining the inside of your stand with something like pond liner or having a tray made that fits inside? Then create an emergency drain to the basement or out of the house just in case this happens again. You woukd need some kind of alarm setup so you know when you have a leak. This could be as simple as an interrupted wire and a buzzer or as fancy as an apex leak pad.

Beside the large pump needed your sump would be in the basement where you don't spend most of your time. This would lead to laziness in my case and make me not check in on things as often as I do now.

Honestly, that's a pretty good idea. 45 feet of horizontal is a pretty notable hurdle for consistent operation. You might also consider using that room as a water prep area, then using a peristaltic pump to run an auto water change.

 

[Pife]

I think I would look at removing a constant source of water like your Rodi. Just refill your ato tank every week or however often you need too.

 

[jc286006]

i am going to move just the ATO tank/waterchange tank part of my system which is the souce of every flood that has happened to the basement.

a float switch sticks when the ATO tank or the waterchange tank is refilling and now this solenoid sticking open is what has always caused a flood.

amazingly i have never had an issue with the ATO system putting makeup water back into the DT system in over 8 years of use causing a flood.

 

[Scubareefman]

I say keep it simple. Get an apex and add the water sensor mod. Have it run your ato with an extra float/sensor in the sump at the to high holy crap point. Have it shut everything off, and email you if either sensor trips (high water, leak/flood sensor)


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[Tonblogna]

I pump about the same height and distance with a blueline 70 and have to throttle it back because the 1" won't keep up unless I run full vacuum.

 

[jc286006]

i am running an arduino setup to control ato/ refills etc it hasnt malfunctioned its always been a float switch and/or this time the solenoid that failed causing another flood. if i put the ato tank and waterchange tank downstairs the area in the basement is right by a floor drain and nowhere near carpet or other types of flooring that can be damaged and have the resulting wife upset scenario. i have a water sensor by my sump i just have not had the time to do the coding and install sensors by the ato holding tank plus this move will allow for a better skimmer to be installed/purchased. LOL

 

[Chris Abbott]

IM running a reefflow swordtail a year now and it has been flawless. Not a lot of info on this pump as i think most with basement sumps are going way larger than i am. 90 upstairs with ten ft head and it turns the tank over great