Moving houses, need opinions on floor bracing

[sasq40]

So I'm moving in a week and trying to get prepared for the fish tank. Its a 2 story house with a 4ft crawl space underneath. The fish tank will be going on an outside wall parallel with the joists. Its a 160 bow front(6x24x24(18 at the edges) The floor is 16 joist so the tank will be sitting on 2 joists. There are 2 support beams 63" from the left side of the tank and 29" from the right side of the tank.

My thoughts are to add 2 floor jacks under the front to corners were the tank would be, with a 24x24 cement block as well as a piece of lumber, probably 4x4 or rough cut 3x12(i have alot from work) to help spread the load over the cement. The crawl space is dirt floor but the water level is quite high right now so doing a footing may be difficult, but not impossible(would have to dig to find out)

Also I'm thinking of moving my sump into the garage, which is probably 8' ft away from the tank, on the rear wall. So i would be routing my plumbing behind the tank, then into the garage(which is sunken about 1' below the living room) Ive been looking at large plastic tanks to use as my sump(id imagine probably best bet would be to get external pump and skimmer) I suppose my main concern is the draining of the tank(right now im corner overflows with 1 & 3/4 bulkheads). Basically as long as my sump is lower then the highest drain point then will it still drain going that long of a run?

I dont plan on having the plumbing done before the move, but i know i need to get the bracing done before the tank goes into place. Any and all help appropriated!!!

 

[mcgyvr]

I would not add anything based on the information given so far...but it really cant hurt..

A 160g tank with remote sump shouldn't be an issue in any normal home and wont require any additional bracing..

 

[FSJGUY]

Ho2 big are the joists and how far apart are they. Is the stand one with legs or is it a stand with even support on the bottom ?

Just an fyi my house is 20 years old. 3 levels and i have my 6 foot 135g tank in my bedroom with a 4 leg steel stand.. each leg has pressure treated wood and a steel bottom welded to the legs to spread weight better.. and its sitting right in the middle of the joists length wise.. Each end of the joist has a load bearing beam on it but yea. I also have a 60 gallon hexagon tank on a 4 leg stand in the same bedroom with no support under the joists well a load bearing beam is like 1 foot away but yea the room below is an open room.

So i have almost the worse possible scenario for fish tanks using stands with legs and the tank sitting directly in the center of the joists..

Has done a single thing to the floor or beams. Im almost 300 lbs as well. The 135 will wobble a little if i jump on the floor in front of it. It used to sit parrallel to the joists and it wouldnt wobble... So i dont jump up and down on my floor where it is now lol but im not worried about a joist cracking or anything.

They are 2x10 pine joists 16 inches apart

 

[FSJGUY]

I dont think youll need any added support if the joists are 2x10s.

You should however look at the condition of the joists. Check for termites and check for knots in the wood or cracks. Joists are weaker when they have knots in the wood it can cause cracking in the beams over time. If its got alot of knots id probly support it.. if its a clean beam i wouldnt do anything tbh.

I have as i said a 135 and 60g in the same bedroom 3rd lvl.. sitting in the center of the joists.. granted each joist is only 10 feet long and has load besring beams on each end.. so with a 6 foot tank that means each end of my tank is only 1 1.2 feet from the load bearing beams.

 

[steallife904]

I think I would do it just to sleep better. I would over engineer it and put as much support as possible. If you don't it will stick in your mind forever!

 

[sasq40]

Talking to a few people I think I've come up with a solution. The joist are 16 on center 2x10. I'm going to crawl under again today to inspect everything. I believe last time I was there I noticed some bridging on the joist so I'll check that.

What my current plan is to make another 2x10 beam that will span the center of the room, with 4x4s on cement post bases with a adjustable base on top to make sure my new beam is nice and tight.

Now I need to move onto the sump system. I'm thinking of during a bean animal with pipes coming from behind and use my current corner overflows as the drains. Am I correct in assuming as long as my sump is lower then my lowest drain in will drain?

Next question is what should I use as a sump? I'd prefer to use something that can be closed up as my current plan is to stick it in the corner of my garage, which I use for wood and metal projects so there is often dirt in the air. Another option is for me to build a small room in the garage corner thst will contain the sump equipment. Then I guess I need to figure out what kind of hose / pipe setup will be best

 

[sasq40]

O and my stand is a steel stand made out of square tubing with the tubing spanning the whole stand on the bottom

 

[steallife904]

ya I would add is much as possible under there to the area the tank is going. You are easily talking over 1300 pound with a 160. I would even add a couple support beams to the existing joist under the tank area. Possible over kill but again you will sleep better plus your lucky you can access it.
If you are working in the garage I would say build a sump room if possible. Don't risk stuff flying into it. you really don't want to put a close top on the sump anyway. As for the sump you have a bunch of options. could get a 55 gallon from petco when they do the dollar a gallon sale and build one... you could go real big and get a Rubbermaid 100 gallon stock tank and have plenty of room plus increase the water volume.

 

[brian3]

Some say not to brace it should be fine but I agree for the piece of mind do it now. That load is over 100 lb/sq ft and your floor is likely designed for less than 50 lb/sq ft live load with typical house construction.

 

[ca1ore]

I always put jack posts under the corners of my large tanks if I can. Not that the floor will collapse, but to prevent any kind of deflection.

 

[FSJGUY]

First sign for me anyway of the floor sagging would be nails coming out of the drywall in the ceiling below.. so far for my 135g it hasnt, and my 135 is using a steel stand with 4 legs.. yea... i know worst thing you can have ever, on top of that the tank is sitting along the length of the joists.. like i said nothing has happend yet.. Its also a 1/2 thick glass tank probly thicker then the 160 you have. The stand is also made out of 3./16th steel so probly thicker then yours as well. They overengineered this stand but they should have at least used 6 legs vs 4 but whatever.

So i probly have 1500-1600lbs on 4 legs sitting length wise on 2/10 joists.. I did add some pressure treated 2x10s under the legs to distribute the weight a little better, but still i probly have 400 lbs per square foot on my floor and its fine.

 

[Kevin Guthrie]

For peace of mind (not sure you need it) I would get a 4 by 4. Cut a piece to go under both joists - maybe 18-20 inches long - and cut the other piece so it goes from basement floor to the bottom of 4 by 4, locate it half way between the joists. Make it a tight fit before filling the tank and you should be OK.

 

[sasq40]

Fish tank support by Kael Short, on Flickr

Well got the beefing done yesterday and tank moved today. I'm still a little concerned that when you jump in front of the tank or walk really heavy I see some water movement.

All moved by Kael Short, on Flickr

 

[sasq40]

Sorry the pictures are to big can figure out how to resize on my phone, and the darn computer is backed away lol

 

[sasq40]

Well got back to the house after moving some more stuff and found all the fish dead. Must have had a bta die or something. Guess it will. Give me more time to setup my sump and brace the floor some more.

Side note, what's the best way to juke the rock, I have some coral I like but my apistia problem is so bad, proably hundreds in there I'm alright just starting over

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

 

[mickey204]

Seeing how it's an outside wall and its a 160, there no reason to brace or anything.

You could easily park your car in your house without any issues.

Remember guys, an average woman walking in high heels is laying down 2000PSI on that heel and she isn't blowing through your floor.

In the end, do what makes you feel better, I see you did brace it, which is fine, just make sure your bracing doesn't create a bulge and a high point, even the smallest bulge can blow out a corner or crack the tank. This will create more issues for you then leaving it alone. (just like a telescopic post puts bulges in a house floor)

I find when people start messing around with something that's already settled they tend to create more problems for themselves.

Don't be concerned about water movement when walking, I have my tank in my Shop which is steel beam construction and concrete floors, if I jump or run past the tank chasing my dogs, you'll see movement. This is totally normal. Your only option to avoid this would be to pound a concrete base from the crawlspace all the way up through the floor like a pile. Which would be crazy. lol

 

[mcgyvr]

Remember guys, an average woman walking in high heels is laying down 2000PSI on that heel and she isn't blowing through your floor.

Point loading is different that a distributed load..
One can't apply one to the other..

 

[mickey204]

Point loading is different that a distributed load..
One can't apply one to the other..

Of course you can. It's simply meant to put things into perspective.

The weight spread out of a 160 gal tank is nothing compared to that of a high heel.

Many stands have legs, or adjustable feet. That is point loading as well.

His stand does not. Hence, proving even less of a risk factor. Once you spread that weight out you reduce your issues.

 

[mcgyvr]

Of course you can. It's simply meant to put things into perspective.

The weight spread out of a 160 gal tank is nothing compared to that of a high heel.

Many stands have legs, or adjustable feet. That is point loading as well.

His stand does not. Hence, proving even less of a risk factor. Once you spread that weight out you reduce your issues.

Not really.. One is about the break through/punch through strength of the subfloor and one is about the strengths of the joist system/flooring structure as a whole..
A 20,000PSI point load is NOT the same as a 20,000 distributed load on the floor..
While a chick in high heels may apply a 20kPSI point load that does not mean that the chick weighs 20k lbs or that the floor is carrying 20k lbs on it....

 

[mickey204]

Not really.. One is about the break through/punch through strength of the subfloor and one is about the strengths of the joist system/flooring structure as a whole..
A 20,000PSI point load is NOT the same as a 20,000 distributed load on the floor..
While a chick in high heels may apply a 20kPSI point load that does not mean that the chick weighs 20k lbs or that the floor is carrying 20k lbs on it....

Oh boy, I didn't think I'd have to break it down.

The high heel comparison is something we use all the time (in carpentry) to put into perspective how strong wood is structurally, and how distribution of load helps to carry the weight. I never said a woman is 20,000 pounds lol

If your floor can withstand 20,000 PSI from a high heel, once you break down the weight of the tank, rock and stand and do all your wizardry in math, you'll be looking at a far lower number per square inch where the stand contacts the floor.

You avoided the point of many stands having legs, or adjustable feet interestingly enough. Which bring its back directly to a point load. If the stand does not, you're even better off. However most stands like his (I have one) require shims to level it. You're now apply "point load" very close to the size of a heel. So yes it's a very valid point whether you wish to accept it or not.

If you had a perfectly level tank with the whole stand touching, that weight is distributed over the length/width of the stand and then distributed through the floor/sub floor and then over the joists. An outside wall will generally always have more strength to it as well. It is just a 160 gallon tank after all.

The OP is perfectly fine not bracing the joists for a tank of that size.

In the end you break it down to PSI or PSF VS the load bearing capacity of those sized joists. You could use cow hooves, car tires, high heels, whatever you want to illustrate how much PSI your floor/subfloor and joists can take as they all take a part of bearing the weight. Floors don't magically float without joists.

Heels just work great as we all have had a woman walking around in them and they look great too

It appears you selectively choose what to argue over in a comment then the actual comments themselves. Which is fine I suppose. But not really helpful.

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

Cheers.