Moving sump to basement, have questions

[terry4505]

I am in the planning stages of moving the sump for my 120 to my basement. I am planning on T-ing the returns under the tank and running one 3/4" line into the basement from the return pump.

My question is, can I T off the drain lines under the tank and run one 1" or 1.5" line down to the sump, or does each 1" drain line need a seperate pipe run to the sump?

I think moving the sump will make my life so much easier in terms of hauling buckets of water, ATO, and temperature control.

 

[cardiffgiant]

Basement sumps are soooo much easier on the maintenance.

I would do separate drain lines.

 

[Haffs09]

Separate drains lines would be nice, but you could also get away with running a single 1.5" drain to the sump too. If you do the latter, immediately increase the pipe diameter from your bulkheads to 1.5" and then tee them together using 1.5" plumbing. If you do that using 1" plumbing, I would be concerned that a plug downstream of your tee will render both of your overflows useless. There is always a risk of plugging no matter what size plumbing you use, but I find it hard to image something plugging a 1.5" drain, especially if you use strainers on your overflow pipes. In addition, the cross sectional surface area of a single 1.5" pipe is still 12% greater than both 1" pipes.

What is your total head? That will aide in determining the pump you select and ultimately what size plumbing you'll want to run for it. A 3/4" return line will likely require a pressure rated pump. A 1.5" return reduced at your bulkheads may give you more options for pumps.

 

[terry4505]

I have 7' of head to the basement. I currently use a Mag 9.5 in my under-tank sump, which I don't think is going to be powerful enough once the sump is 4' lower and across the house from where the tank is.

I was thinking that if I T'd the drains, I would go with 1.5" pipe. I might just suck it up and run the two 1" drains.

 

[Haffs09]

What flow rate do you want going to your display? With that info and an estimate of the total head losses, you can size an appropriate pump.

Personally, I would run a single 1.5" drain.

 

[terry4505]

somewhere in the ballpark of 1000 gph. I have a lot of soft corals/ euphillias that don't like a ton of flow.

I am less concerned about making a decision about a return pump just yet. I am focused on trying to figure out the plumbing going through the floor etc.

I know the Mag 9.5 will be at the very bottom of what is acceptable for what I am going to be doing (at 7' of head, the 9.5 is rated at 640 gph)

 

[pascal32]

You can bring together the drains, use a Y instead of a T for flow and noise. The return line to the display should be bigger than 3/4", you will loose flow due to resistance on the inside of the pipe. I'll check the flow rates when I get home

 

[pascal32]

can you confirm the 7 feet of head? measure from where the pump would be to where the inlet into the tank is (not the T).

1000GPH is a good turnover, you could ge as low as 600 IMHO.

playing with the headloss calculator (http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator)

the Iwake-55RT will give you 1000GPH with 1 1/4" pipe and two pipe exits and a few couplers. To appreciate the difference in pipe diameter, going to 3/4" reduces flow by 180GPH!

MAG18 is about the same with 1 1/4" pipe, but looses 305GPH if you run 3/4" pipe (I suspect this is because the iwaki is more pressure biased). NOTE: Mags can run externally, however I generally recommend you DO NOT do this. The experience is that they are hit or miss for leaking. I have a 9.5 running externally on my mixing bin without issue for almost two years. on the other side I tried running a 3 and 5 externally at a friends house and they leaked from the plate seal.

Blueline HD-55 is about 907GPH

 

[terry4505]

Yes, the head is 7" from the outlets of the returns (in tank) to where the pump will sit in-sump in the basement.

If I run 1-1/4" pipe, I will have to reduce it to 3/4" because that is the bulkhead size on my tank, will this still have that large of an effect on reducing gph?

I appreciate all the info

 

[pascal32]

Yes, the head is 7" from the outlets of the returns (in tank) to where the pump will sit in-sump in the basement.

If I run 1-1/4" pipe, I will have to reduce it to 3/4" because that is the bulkhead size on my tank, will this still have that large of an effect on reducing gph?

I appreciate all the info

yes it will, however the goal is to put as little resistance on the water as much as possible, and to make the reduction as late as possible. That 7 foot run on the pipe makes a difference. The resistance comes from the inner side of the pipe and can't be avoided, however larger diameter allows more flow. A pressure biased pump will handle it better, but your loss on the 7 feet alone is about 100GPH between 3/4" and 1 1/4" with the 55RT. the 3/4" runs from the Y will probably loose you 100GPH.

for what you are looking to do consider 1 1/4" up into a Y for a nice split, then convert to vinyl up to the returns. There are more efficient ways, IMHO the run up and the Y should be 1 1/4".

it's hard to get accurate numbers without a fancy calculator. playing with the calculator I would be surprised to see the 55RT put out less than 800GPH

BTW - I'm not partial to that pump, heard it works well though.