Multiple Sumps and Regugia

[GLD]

Sometime this year, I will move my 285 gallon out our upstairs bedroom window. When I set it up downstairs, I want don't want to bury the refugium and sump under the tank.

Help me brainstorm re the best combination of refugia and sumps that could be plumbed together in sequence. I would love to have a tidal pool tank and a salt march tank and a ....

I may have to put the refugia and sumps in the basement or out in the garage. the garage is detached but only is 12' from where the main tank will sit downstairs.

The planning will be fun! Looking forward to your ideas.

thanks,
George Davenport
Tulsa

I also will have a quarantine tank in the system. I finally learned the lesson that everybody eventually learns the hard way. After 5 years, one introduced fish wiped out 3/4 of my fish. No new fish until the tank is re-established downstairs AND after the new fish work their way through quarantine.

 

[coralnut99]

Just from a practical standpoint, I would put any combination of refugiums and sumps in your basement. The plumbing and associated logistics would seem to make it a better choice than a garage that is 12 feet away. Also, unless the garage is heated, you'll have a very difficult time with temperature swings I would think.

fwiw, I just added the first fish to one of my 125 displays in over a year. I added two pinktail triggers about three days ago. I knew I was taking chances. One had a wound under its' chin, and the other was already showing a few spots. It took them a couple of days to start eating, and a week to get used to me being around the tank. The spots on the one that already had them got worse about 10 days in. The totally diappeared 3 days later. The wound under the other's chin is noticably better. The thing to note is that none of the other 4 fish in the tank developed ich even after introducing fish they couldn't dominate.

 

[coralnut99]

PS, If I read your post correctly, you'll be sending a 285 out your bedroom window?!?!?

If this is the case, please take pictures and share them here.

 

[GLD]

That's how it went in !!

I will have to use a different set of friends this time. The other ones are too smart to say yes again.

I rented a drywall lift like those used by construction companies to lift stacks of drywall up to the second floor.

We put the aquarium on the lift and cranked it up 18'. The aquarium is too long to make it up our stairs so the only way it can travel to/frm the second floor is out the window ... actually the window opening. I will have to tear out the window because the tank will require all the space that the window's rough opening will provide !

Pictures will be posted !

 

[coralnut99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12182562#post12182562 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GLD
That's how it went in !!

I will have to use a different set of friends this time. The other ones are too smart to say yes again.

I rented a drywall lift like those used by construction companies to lift stacks of drywall up to the second floor.

We put the aquarium on the lift and cranked it up 18'. The aquarium is too long to make it up our stairs so the only way it can travel to/frm the second floor is out the window ... actually the window opening. I will have to tear out the window because the tank will require all the space that the window's rough opening will provide !

Pictures will be posted !

WHOA! I was afraid you were gonna say that! I have just shy of 600G of sw in a basement fishroom and my wife would have me hung out the window by the fork of that drywall lift if I even suggested anything like this. You and your wife must be really in synch on the reef stuff, which is just great!

 

[mofrags]

or hire movers so your friends don't find a new friend, thats what I did. find ones that are insured though. put your gear in the basement easier to keep temp regulated

 

[GLD]

I am a little worried about how much humidity 280g display plus sump plus refugium plus sea-grass tank plus frag tank will contribute to my 100 yr old house. That is the only reason that I am thinking of setting the sumps, etc up in the detached garage, after finishing it out for temp control, etc.

 

[Agu]

I have a friend who put a utility shed in the backyard next to the house and ran all his plumbing out there. Beats 12' away and would probably be cheaper than insulating the garage.

 

[Agu]

And since I'm spending your money, you could install skylights or sola tubes before the shed is insulated. That way you can use natural light and save money on lights and electricity.

 

[GLD]

I like the solatubes idea.

Still looking for ideas for the various sumps and refugia. If I do set up in the garage, then there will be room for a number of tanks:

1) sea-grass tank
2) cryptic sump
3) tidal pool

what else would you suggest?

 

[el aguila]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12202211#post12202211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GLD
I am a little worried about how much humidity 280g display plus sump plus refugium plus sea-grass tank plus frag tank will contribute to my 100 yr old house. That is the only reason that I am thinking of setting the sumps, etc up in the detached garage, after finishing it out for temp control, etc.

If you are worried about humidity, make a moisture proof fishroom. By using green (MR) drywall painted with a latex epoxy paint. Then create a negative air space by taking a low CFM fan like a computer fan and a flex air duct to exhuast moisture ladden air to the exterior of the house.

The negative air pressure keeps the moisture ladden air from being absorbed by the house.

You also want a low CFM fan or you end up sucking all of the heat/ac cooling out of your house.

Negative air pressure is also a good idea for any fish room or above tank canopy.

 

[GLD]

If you could connect a series of tanks together, what would you put in each tank?

what ecosystems would you try to model?

 

[bsagecko]

i would do a chaeto fuge, ulva fuge, pod fuge w liverock, liverock filteration fuge (300 lbs plus), a tidepool (hard but possible), 100g frag tank, 50g QT (not connected to main system overcourse), 50g holding center, 300g sand bed fuge for sharks, 20g spawning center for clowns, cryptic...........

this what i would do if i had the space and money, but my mom said no when i asked if i could connect and insulate my 3 car garge and turn the whole thing into a giant fuge/fish room.......and she was also against drilling holes into the walls of the house...........i have no idea why...............the shark tank is just a dream thing not really pratical...............i would check out hte ulva algae really neat................


maybe also sea grass tank and mangrove with an algae scrubber area..............

i have plans for all of these fuges and tanks i have recommended as well as how i would line them up and all the needed supplies and the benefits for each system except the cryptic one.............

so hit me with a pm if you want some more info one anything

 

[GLD]

bsagecko,

You and I think alike ... well-almost. I hadn't even dreamed of a 3-car garage .... or a shark tank !!

I love your other ideas though. Being a New Englander transplanted to (and liking) Oklahoma, in my experience, tidal pools are cold. And I would love to model one, but haven't been able to figure out how to do that in conjunction with a reef tank running at 78°. Perhaps the Maine Coast tidal pool could be plumbed in such a way to provide cooling to the larger tank ... maybe plumb some of the reef tank's plumbing through the Tidal Pool's sump so that reef tank waters can be circulated through the cold water as needed to chill the main tank.

I would love to study your plans; thanks for the offer !!

To the rest of the Reef Central World, now that bsagecko has started the list, what would you add ?

Thanks All,
George Davenport
Tulsa, OK

 

[bsagecko]

for the tidepool tank what size where you thinking of......

if you only wanted like a 40g tank for it you could use it to cool the water from the main tank......but in my plans i just built a DIY chiller.......


what i planned was to have a 4 in pipe running into the tide pool that had a ball valve on it and a 4in pipe leaving the tank with ball vavle and what i would do is set it up so the vavles opened for the tide pool and then closed and then after a certain period of time the vavle leaving the tide pool would open to release the cool water.......................the only problems i had was trying to find a way to automatically do this and how to actually get the animals i wanted...........( i live in florida)..........also the DIY chiller was having a lil problem with amount of time it would take to cool it and since the tide pool system was a branch from the normal system i wasnt sure how to get all the problems worked out and after my mom said no i was like well what is the point in trying to figure it out.........................the shark tank would be absolutly awesome and it would provide a place for a large sand bed to be put in as well since sharks arent really into the whole rock thing........

IF you really love cold water tanks that much i would just go a complete seperate system with a chiller running on it....in the long run it will be alot easier then trying to connect it into a warm water system just do to temperature problems that could occur.......you could do like a 40g cold water system and keep basically anything.........that lives in tide pools.............i have only seen one success full take that was cold water......so you might want to put this on the back burner for a lil while..................


the only problem i see with your idea of cooling the large tank with the tidal pool and the reason i didnt do this............is because of the temperature changes that will result may kill your livestock and you are going to have to either make or buy a chiller for the tidal pool tank anyways.....................


BTW the best chillers DIY that i have seen either use ice with a PP coil running through the ice or the use of a refrigerate coil with water following around it or a water coil coiled around the refrigerate coil.................you have to be careful about copper......


Oh another big think with having the tidal pool connected to the warm water reef is that you dont know what kind of toxics the cold water animals will release and how that will effect your warm water animals......................the only thing going for you on that is the fact that most poisons are protein based (neurotoxins,cardiotoxins etc.) and proteins are denatured (made useless) at certain temperatures....................


go the following listen is notes/ideas and how i would line the refuges in order from main tank to back to main tank.........


ok main tank..............then ulva with a rotating spray bar.......chaeto with rotating spray bar........(note no sand in these refuge)....................then liverock filteration (300lbs)..........then pod fuge with sand and liverock........then 20g spawning center so that the clown babies can get the free pods...........then frag.....then shark........then holding center.......



if you want the seagrass and mangrove with the algae scrubber i would put them all before the clownfish tank.............


with this time of setup you will not need a skimmer anymore in my opinion because of all the plants that you will have in the system it will not really help with nutrient export nor will it help with gas exchange IMO........

not really sure where you wanted to go with the cryptic fuge thingy plz provide more info on what you want..........


the spray is where a pump in conjuction with a pvc DIY spray bar keeps the algae rotating so that every part gets exposure to the light and that way you dont have to rotate it and it will result in less work for you................this type of sytem will cost thousands of dollars unless you happen to have a large amount of large tanks lying around your house( in which case you should send me one)


what you and i are really talking about making is a small aqaurium with a total system water mass of about 2000+ gallons not including your DT


the electric alone will cost you at least $300-$600 a month unless you run it on solar which i also have plans for and i also have plans to make a hydropower plant if you happen to live by a river........


i also have DIY plans to make every single tank from glass to plywood to HDPE.................so what we could do is use the 50-100g tubs for all the algae and liverock fuges..............then the clown tank would be a 20L AGA tank......holding system would be 55g AGA tank...............then the shark tank would be a plywood system with a glass side planel and an open top that you could look into.....etc...........

 

[GLD]

Now that is what I am talking about !!!

Oh Yeah.

re using the tidal pool for temperature control, I think your advise is wise: don't risk the main tank by making it rely on the tidal pool for cooling, but it would be possible to use the tidal pool set-up to supplement a chiller on the main tank:
1) put a chiller on the tidal tank system
2) stick a coil of plastic tubing in the tidal pool's sump
3) circulate reef tank system water through that cooling loop when chilling is needed
4) this would reduce the need to chill the main tank, but the main tank should have a chiller that would kick in as needed just in case

Since the "fish" room will be in part of our detached garage, I am thinking of installing solotubes in the garage roof to supplement lighting, and to save electricity.

what is the holding center? Is that where the water is held and collected before being pumped back up to the main tank?

I defintely will insert a cyrptic sump into the system, perhaps in place of the shark tank.

Keep the ideas coming !!

Thanks !!

 

[bsagecko]

that is exactly what the holding center is...............and it can double as a place for fish who dont play nice if needed...........

with a system like this i suggest using large external pump that are air cooled to reduce the amount of heat that is put into the system...........like the 1-4 list sounds good............the cyrptic sump instead of the shark tank sounds like a good idea...........

esp. if money is and issue........

switch the shark tank for the cryptic will probly save you at least $2000..............and reduce energy cost.............

have you given a thought about the pumps you want to use?

is your garage level or unlevel.............if it was unlevel you could run the tanks from the highest to lowest and use gravity to help you out so you dont need so many pumps................

the hold center maybe something to place inside and then pump the water up into the tank............i dont now if you can find a pump that will go 12ft and then another 5ft of head pressure................

solotubes sound good especially over the different fuges so you dont need as many lights for those then you could use a small fixture for the frag tank and you would be good.............

for the algae scrubber i suggest using a container that is less than 10" deep and i think you will need at least VHO lighting for it............or whatever you got......................

i think it would be cool if you could have the tide pool inside the house..........for easy viewing while you sitting on your couch or lazyboy..................(just a thought from a lazy reefer)

also if i were you i would setup and Automatic water changing system and definately ATO system..................i suggest brute trash cans for containers for mixing the salt............

a system this big will prbly evap at least 10-20 gallons a day.........

do you have any ideas how big you want each section to be?

you could do everything done to 20g each or go up to 50-100g each just depends on the space.....................

 

[GLD]

Mr. Wilson,

What do you think?