Multiple tangs in a tank at fish store

[Recty]

A local fish store was asking me about doing this... I've no experience with this many tangs at once so I'm hoping someone on here does.

They want to order 10 powder blues, all in the 3-4" range, they can get quite a deal on them.

They have a 55g set up on their fish wall they want to put them in... I'm trying to talk them out of it. Their other option would be 10 small tanks that are all plumbed together, they are around 5g each. It's basically a shallow wide tank that they have separated up into 12 different sections with plexiglass. So the tangs could see each other but not get to each other.

Do you guys think it would be better to house 10 powder blues all in the same 55g or have them all separate in the small tanks? I was thinking the 55g would be nice because they have swimming room and with that many tangs I dont think they would have too much aggression or if they did it would get spread out.

The way the fish market is in this town, I'd expect them to not sell all 10 for about 3 months, so it's not exactly a short term situation but it's not long term either.

Anyway, I'm wide open to opinions, I told them I'd ask.

Both ways they could do it means the fish all share the same water, so either way if one has ich or another disease they all do.

 

[TampaReefer79]

A local fish store was asking me about doing this... I've no experience with this many tangs at once so I'm hoping someone on here does.

They want to order 10 powder blues, all in the 3-4" range, they can get quite a deal on them.

They have a 55g set up on their fish wall they want to put them in... I'm trying to talk them out of it. Their other option would be 10 small tanks that are all plumbed together, they are around 5g each. It's basically a shallow wide tank that they have separated up into 12 different sections with plexiglass. So the tangs could see each other but not get to each other.

Do you guys think it would be better to house 10 powder blues all in the same 55g or have them all separate in the small tanks? I was thinking the 55g would be nice because they have swimming room and with that many tangs I dont think they would have too much aggression or if they did it would get spread out.

The way the fish market is in this town, I'd expect them to not sell all 10 for about 3 months, so it's not exactly a short term situation but it's not long term either.

Anyway, I'm wide open to opinions, I told them I'd ask.

Both ways they could do it means the fish all share the same water, so either way if one has ich or another disease they all do.

Holy powder blues Recty. It sounds like your LFS has a disaster waiting to happen. IE: I can't say I'd recommend either option. Actually, tell them to go with option C: None of the above.

 

[snorvich]

If the time frame is months not days, it is highly likely that there will be an outbreak of ich due to the stress level of the fish.

 

[Recty]

Yeah, the time frame will be at least 2 months, probably three, since we dont live in a place with TONS of fish sales.

I think they are getting the fish for $12 each if they buy them in packs of 10, so they want to try it. Powder blues go up for sale here in the $80 range, so they stand to make a decent profit IIIIIFFFFFFF they can keep them alive.

I see all these asian tanks that have 200 angels/tangs in a small tank, and the reason they can get by with it is because there are so many fish they simply cant claim territory. So I think that's what they are going to try to replicate, I was thinking the smaller 4-5 gallon sections of the big tank would be better.

Either way, they treat their fish with cupramine if needed, so ich wont be a big deal.

 

[vwtanker]

Not a good idea IMO. I work in a very clean successful store with very little fish loss and we wouldn't try that in any of our tanks. Even our larger sale tanks, 125s and 200s.

 

[TampaReefer79]

Copper and powder blues don't mix. I'm not sure if the cupramine is easier on the powder blues belly than copper at full strength or not...since it's a store, I'm sure they'd know this. I still think they are risking the lives of 10 fish all to try to make a buck. I understand the business aspect of the hobby, but this sounds foolish to me. They don't even have a demand to get rid of 10 powder blues...tell them to get as many as they can sell in a short term. Not 3 months.

 

[jaa1456]

Copper and powder blues don't mix. I'm not sure if the cupramine is easier on the powder blues belly than copper at full strength or not...since it's a store, I'm sure they'd know this. I still think they are risking the lives of 10 fish all to try to make a buck. I understand the business aspect of the hobby, but this sounds foolish to me. They don't even have a demand to get rid of 10 powder blues...tell them to get as many as they can sell in a short term. Not 3 months.

Haha, You would think they would know about the copper, but look at what they are asking for these fish in terms of housing them. I know of one tank set up with around 20-30 powder blues in it. It is at the Camden aquarium in NJ, not sure how they actually get along though. The tank is also probrably in the 200 gallon range

 

[Recty]

I did suggest just buying 2 or 3 at normal prices which is still only around $16 or $18, but they really are set on making a higher profit.

Well, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is these fish would be better off in what basically comes down to 10 separate 5g tanks than all crammed into one 55g tank in their fish wall. I think I can talk them into that if they wont be talked out of ordering.

I dont work at the store, I maintain their web page and installed their security camera system plus do some computer work when needed, so I'm not involved much in their fish husbandry side of things. I do know they treat most of their powder blues (and other tangs) with cupramine and dont seem to have any problems with it.

I've personally treated achilles and powder browns (arguably as finicky as powder blues) with cupramine and never had issues.

 

[Recty]

I know of one tank set up with around 20-30 powder blues in it. It is at the Camden aquarium in NJ, not sure how they actually get along though.

I think that's kind of what they are going for... 10 fish crammed in a small body of water without the room to really get fighting. I see tanks like that on Youtube all the time. The filtration these tanks would be plumbed into would make sure the water quality is high, so they wouldnt be dealing with dirty water, just high population.

 

[TampaReefer79]

Personally, I think 5 gallon holding tanks for a few months sounds stupid. ESPECIALLY for a powder blue. Tell this fish store that they are either going to kill them all and lose their $12 each, or sell them diseased for a discount because they will ALL have ick.

And as I was saying with copper and the powder blue:

"The Powder Blue Tang have alimentary faunas (bacteria living in their stomachs). It is recommended that treating with a copper based treatment be either avoided or be performed in as short a time period as possible to keep from damaging this faunas population. Fenner speculates that excessive treatments with a copper medication could lead to mysterious deaths of tangs in the Acanthurdis class."

 

[Recty]

Yeah, I've read over that on WetWebMedia before, HOWEVER, I know from experience that I've treated my acanthurus tangs with cupramine for 3 week periods without causing issues, my achilles tang which lived a long happy life even after going to the fish store did great after cupramine, he actually went through two treatments of it

Anyway, I'm not defending what the fish store is doing but I was trying to mitigate the damage a little. I'm pretty sure most powder blues spend a lot of time after being collected and sitting at wholesalers and distributors in small tanks probably not even 5 gallons volume and they do OK. I agree it isnt ideal to house them in it, but I think it's better than putting them all into a 55 gallon.

Again, I'm not defending the store or their practices, but I would like to see their fish survive, they have good prices and their fish are always healthy that I've seen.

 

[velvetelvis]

I'm appalled that a store would even have to consult a hobbyist (however knowledgeable) about how to house and care for livestock. Cripes, most people are going to come to them for advice. :hmm3:

 

[TampaReefer79]

Yeah, I've read over that on WetWebMedia before, HOWEVER, I know from experience that I've treated my acanthurus tangs with cupramine for 3 week periods without causing issues, my achilles tang which lived a long happy life even after going to the fish store did great after cupramine, he actually went through two treatments of it

Anyway, I'm not defending what the fish store is doing but I was trying to mitigate the damage a little. I'm pretty sure most powder blues spend a lot of time after being collected and sitting at wholesalers and distributors in small tanks probably not even 5 gallons volume and they do OK. I agree it isnt ideal to house them in it, but I think it's better than putting them all into a 55 gallon.

Again, I'm not defending the store or their practices, but I would like to see their fish survive, they have good prices and their fish are always healthy that I've seen.

No no no, we all know you are just as against it overall as we are. Your original post stated that you tried to talk them out of it. If I sounded like I was attacking YOU, I wasn't. I think the store is acting irresponsibly and risking 10 fish lives to make a few dollars. I think in the end, they will kill the fish and lose $, not make it. I know what you're saying about the conditions they go through before they reach us, but you're saying they could stay in these quarters for 3 months or better. That's why I think a 5 gallon tank is asinine. And I'm absolutely not arguing with you about the copper, but I THINK the powder blue is the only one with the bacteria in their belly. I could be wrong. The powder blue is the worst one when it comes to the copper. So while the website says that acanthurus species overall don't like copper, they are saying that the pbt will be affected in the worst way. I hope you continue to try to talk them out of this. :crazy1:

 

[Recty]

I'm appalled that a store would even have to consult a hobbyist (however knowledgeable) about how to house and care for livestock. Cripes, most people are going to come to them for advice. :hmm3:

Well, I've done a lot for them and they were just asking me about it... not so much wanting advice to convince them away from it, just asking how well I thought it would work. It's really only because I go in there quite a bit and I used to have a nice big FOWLR that didnt follow "conventional" fishkeeping rules so they probably thought I'd be on their side

No no no, we all know you are just as against it overall as we are. Your original post stated that you tried to talk them out of it. If I sounded like I was attacking YOU, I wasn't. I think the store is acting irresponsibly and risking 10 fish lives to make a few dollars. I think in the end, they will kill the fish and lose $, not make it. I know what you're saying about the conditions they go through before they reach us, but you're saying they could stay in these quarters for 3 months or better. That's why I think a 5 gallon tank is asinine. And I'm absolutely not arguing with you about the copper, but I THINK the powder blue is the only one with the bacteria in their belly. I could be wrong. The powder blue is the worst one when it comes to the copper. So while the website says that acanthurus species overall don't like copper, they are saying that the pbt will be affected in the worst way. I hope you continue to try to talk them out of this. :crazy1:

I probably wont waste much more time talking to them about it, I'll tell them what I think and be done with it, I really dont have much to do with the fish side of their business. I just try to stay on their good side because they throw work my way

 

[SlateXIV]

As everyone else has stated it seems like the two options presented would only result in a profit lose due to ill or damaged fish. How long is this deal available to the LFS? If it is available for a longer period of time perhaps they could try to get a list of folks who would like these tangs at a lower price as a customer appreciation type deal. Get enough folks that want to purchase them right away(after a 1 or 2 week QT) so they can keep the remaining in the 55gallon tank safely then sell those remaining at normal price.

Sometimes offering a great deal to the customers not only keeps appreciation up but brings sales in other items. Like foods, algae clips, etc. Just an idea to try to keep everyone happy.

 

[scionreefing]

*** dude you need to smack them with a bag of sand. theres no way that would happen at my store.

 

[elegance coral]

I'm trying to look at this from the LFS's point of view. The way the market is today, they need to take advantage of every opportunity they can, or simply close their doors like so many others have been forced to do. I don't like the idea of 10 powder blues in a 55 any more than any one else. The LFS may need to break some rules just to stay open though. Aggression will break out in the tank. I think that's a given. I'm sure the LFS has other tanks, or cubicle they can move fish to, if/when this happens. Even if it takes three months to sell all 10 fish, they won't be housing all 10 for the whole three months. The population will be decreasing as people buy them. As the aggression escalates, the population will be decreasing. I'm not saying this will fix the problem, but it may help to subdue the aggression somewhat. If they normally go for $80 in your area, and the LFS is paying $12, they can have a blow out tang sale at $40 a piece. This would move the tangs much faster while putting some sweet profits on the books.

I'm not trying to start an argument. Just posting a different perspective. Food for thought.

 

[kev apsley]

If the time frame is months not days, it is highly likely that there will be an outbreak of ich due to the stress level of the fish.

 

[TampaReefer79]

I'm trying to look at this from the LFS's point of view. The way the market is today, they need to take advantage of every opportunity they can, or simply close their doors like so many others have been forced to do. I don't like the idea of 10 powder blues in a 55 any more than any one else. The LFS may need to break some rules just to stay open though. Aggression will break out in the tank. I think that's a given. I'm sure the LFS has other tanks, or cubicle they can move fish to, if/when this happens. Even if it takes three months to sell all 10 fish, they won't be housing all 10 for the whole three months. The population will be decreasing as people buy them. As the aggression escalates, the population will be decreasing. I'm not saying this will fix the problem, but it may help to subdue the aggression somewhat. If they normally go for $80 in your area, and the LFS is paying $12, they can have a blow out tang sale at $40 a piece. This would move the tangs much faster while putting some sweet profits on the books.

I'm not trying to start an argument. Just posting a different perspective. Food for thought.

No arguing at all bud. You make a good point. BUT, there's other ways of making a profit besides killing fish. lol The 'other tanks, or cubicle they can move fish to' is a 5 gallon holder. They sound like they are RUSHING things much as a newbie would just entering the hobby. If they are serious about this, they should take a bigger tank and dedicate it to their pbt purchase. Even if they have to find one on CL to house them. There's too many other options besides A) 10 pbt's in a 55 B) 10 pbt's, 1 each in a 5 gallon holder