My 55 gallon reef project
- Thread starter dcombs44
- Start date
dcombs44
New member
I ran a small battery of tests just now. Here's what I came up with.
pH = 7.8 (Lights were on less than 20 minutes) - Red Sea Kit and Tetra Test Kit
PO4 = < 0.1 ppm - Red Sea Kit
NO3 = 12.5 ppm - Tetra Test Kit
KH = 9.5 - Salifert Kit
Ca = 380 ppm - Salifert Kit
SG = 1.025/33 ppt - Calibrated Refractometer
Temp1 = 80 - Glass Thermometer
Temp2 = 80 - Cheap Stick on Thermometer
I don't like to see the nitrates showing up. I'm probably going to cut back a bit on feeding and skim a bit wetter, as well as trim my macro algae a bit more regularly to help it flourish. I'll continue to work on raising the Ca a bit more, and back off just a bit on the KH buffer. I'll also continue to up the SG just a bit with the next water change.
I need to get an Mg test as well.
pH = 7.8 (Lights were on less than 20 minutes) - Red Sea Kit and Tetra Test Kit
PO4 = < 0.1 ppm - Red Sea Kit
NO3 = 12.5 ppm - Tetra Test Kit
KH = 9.5 - Salifert Kit
Ca = 380 ppm - Salifert Kit
SG = 1.025/33 ppt - Calibrated Refractometer
Temp1 = 80 - Glass Thermometer
Temp2 = 80 - Cheap Stick on Thermometer
I don't like to see the nitrates showing up. I'm probably going to cut back a bit on feeding and skim a bit wetter, as well as trim my macro algae a bit more regularly to help it flourish. I'll continue to work on raising the Ca a bit more, and back off just a bit on the KH buffer. I'll also continue to up the SG just a bit with the next water change.
I need to get an Mg test as well.
dcombs44
New member
Got a question for you folks. I'm getting closer to time to get the 125 build started, and I need to drill this thing.
As far as circulation goes, I hope to implement a closed loop using a Reeflo Snapper pump, or something similar, as well as a couple modded maxi-jets.
So, in total, I'll need the following holes: 1 - sump drain, 1 - sump return, 4 - closed loop returns, 1 - closed loop intake.
I need some recommendations on the size of holes that I'll need here. What do you guys think?
Here are the dimensions for the pumps that I'll be using.
Reeflo Snapper Closed Loop Pump - 2" Intake, 1.5" return
Quiet One 6000 Sump Return - 1" Intake, 1" return.
The reeflo pumps 2500 gph prior to counting for head loss, and the Quiet One pumps 1506 gph prior to headloss, meaning a max of 1506 gph will be subject to the overflow drain.
The Reeflo will flow through an Ocean's Motion super squirt wavemaker, which can handle up to 2500 gph, so no diverter will be needed.
Total flow before headloss will be as follows:
Reeflo Snapper = 2500 gph
Oceans Motion 6000 = 1506 gph
Maxi Mod = 2100 gph
Maxi Mod = 2100 gph
Total flow before head loss = 8206 gph
Tank turns per hour = 65.648
Thoughts?
As far as circulation goes, I hope to implement a closed loop using a Reeflo Snapper pump, or something similar, as well as a couple modded maxi-jets.
So, in total, I'll need the following holes: 1 - sump drain, 1 - sump return, 4 - closed loop returns, 1 - closed loop intake.
I need some recommendations on the size of holes that I'll need here. What do you guys think?
Here are the dimensions for the pumps that I'll be using.
Reeflo Snapper Closed Loop Pump - 2" Intake, 1.5" return
Quiet One 6000 Sump Return - 1" Intake, 1" return.
The reeflo pumps 2500 gph prior to counting for head loss, and the Quiet One pumps 1506 gph prior to headloss, meaning a max of 1506 gph will be subject to the overflow drain.
The Reeflo will flow through an Ocean's Motion super squirt wavemaker, which can handle up to 2500 gph, so no diverter will be needed.
Total flow before headloss will be as follows:
Reeflo Snapper = 2500 gph
Oceans Motion 6000 = 1506 gph
Maxi Mod = 2100 gph
Maxi Mod = 2100 gph
Total flow before head loss = 8206 gph
Tank turns per hour = 65.648
Thoughts?
Alaska_Phil
New member
Sounds good to me. I'm finding the usuall recomendation of 10 to 20x tank volume for total flow to be inadaquate. Most people with nice looking tanks have considerably more. I just received a Koralia 3 at 850 gph to replace on of the two 400gph units I'm using in my 50 gal now.
Phil
Phil
dcombs44
New member
OK, so here's my first run at the flow pattern for the 125. You're looking at the back panel of the tank. My worry is the amount of holes that will be in the back pane of the tank. I'll need 2 holes for the main overflow drains, 1 for the closed loop intake, 4 for the closed loop returns. Total of 7 holes. Is that too many?
I'll plan to split the return from the sump, but run those returns over the top. The bottom of the tank turns out to be tempered, so no drilling on the bottom.
The closed loop will run in the following pattern to alternate the flow. 12, 23, 34, 41. There is always 2 returns spouts running at a time. I want to have them low and behind the rock work to keep things moving back there and point them up and toward the front to create surface aggetation. The sump returns will come over the top and point down to again, move water behind the rock work create a cicular flow pattern with the closed loop. The two maxi- mods will be on the side panels facing each other from across the tank to really help complete the random flow. I think this should help to eliminate any dead spots in the tank.
The closed loop pump will top out at 2500 gph, the sump return max 1506 (but will have a fair amount of head loss), and the maxi mods both pump around 2000 gph.
What do you guys think? Good plan, bad plan, any small/large changes needed?
Also, what size pipe? I've heard 2x the pump opening. Is that correct?
I'll plan to split the return from the sump, but run those returns over the top. The bottom of the tank turns out to be tempered, so no drilling on the bottom.
The closed loop will run in the following pattern to alternate the flow. 12, 23, 34, 41. There is always 2 returns spouts running at a time. I want to have them low and behind the rock work to keep things moving back there and point them up and toward the front to create surface aggetation. The sump returns will come over the top and point down to again, move water behind the rock work create a cicular flow pattern with the closed loop. The two maxi- mods will be on the side panels facing each other from across the tank to really help complete the random flow. I think this should help to eliminate any dead spots in the tank.
The closed loop pump will top out at 2500 gph, the sump return max 1506 (but will have a fair amount of head loss), and the maxi mods both pump around 2000 gph.
What do you guys think? Good plan, bad plan, any small/large changes needed?
Also, what size pipe? I've heard 2x the pump opening. Is that correct?
melev
Well-known member
The intake to the pump needs to be sized correctly, and have a little restriction as possible. If your pump as a 1.5" inlet, I'd probably run 2" plumbing. I'd have a very large strainer inside the back of the tank to minimize what suction exists, to avoid hurting any livestock. Savko sells these giant basket-like strainers. That's what I'd suggest. Try to have that one line as simple as can be, with hardly any fittings. Spaflex would be good, but needs to be supported so it doesn't tug via gravity on your bulkhead.
All bulkheads on the tank should be hand-tightened only to avoid cracking the glass. If you want to use Schedule 80 bulkheads, the holes have to be drilled even larger to accommodate their bulky thickness.
My own tank doesn't have a closed loop, and I've really not worried about what is in the back. Sometimes I've thought about dropping a Modded-Maxijet in the back, and hooked it up to Random-mode with my Aqua Controller III so it just clears out some crud for unknown durations. Any duration has to be better than none, although my tank has been like this for 4.5 years and sometimes I have to wonder if I'm better off just leaving it as it is, before I create a disaster on my hands. Right?
Make sure that all your holes doesn't interfere with the overflow holes, in taht you'd like to keep your plumbing simple with as few fittings as possible.
All bulkheads on the tank should be hand-tightened only to avoid cracking the glass. If you want to use Schedule 80 bulkheads, the holes have to be drilled even larger to accommodate their bulky thickness.
My own tank doesn't have a closed loop, and I've really not worried about what is in the back. Sometimes I've thought about dropping a Modded-Maxijet in the back, and hooked it up to Random-mode with my Aqua Controller III so it just clears out some crud for unknown durations. Any duration has to be better than none, although my tank has been like this for 4.5 years and sometimes I have to wonder if I'm better off just leaving it as it is, before I create a disaster on my hands. Right?
Make sure that all your holes doesn't interfere with the overflow holes, in taht you'd like to keep your plumbing simple with as few fittings as possible.
Alaska_Phil
New member
I don't have any experience with closed loops, but how does the cost of that set-up compare to a couple of Vortechs?
Phil
Phil
dcombs44
New member
I already own the Wavemaker, and all I'll have to purchase is the pump, which runs under $250. I also already have the modded maxijets, so the cost is relatively low in all honesty. I'll just have to buy the plumbing parts, which will probably run about $50 total.
I think the Vortechs run about $300 each, so I'll probably stick with the closed loop.
If you were curious for reference reasons, the Oceans Motion runs $225 for the model I'm getting, and handles up to 2500 gph, so I plan to buy a sequence Snapper to run the closed loop.
Who knows though, I may talk myself in a completely different direction before I start the project.
I think the Vortechs run about $300 each, so I'll probably stick with the closed loop.
If you were curious for reference reasons, the Oceans Motion runs $225 for the model I'm getting, and handles up to 2500 gph, so I plan to buy a sequence Snapper to run the closed loop.
Who knows though, I may talk myself in a completely different direction before I start the project.
melev
Well-known member
When it comes to a closed loop, here's what one must consider:
Related plumbing - will it be an eye-sore? Will it fit? Is it accessible? Can it be installed with limited restrictions / fittings?
Risk factor - will it leak? What is the worst case scenario?
Power consumption - how much electricity will it use around the clock?
What could go wrong - plumbing could fail, the pump could die, livestock could be sucked against the intake strainer.
I had a closed loop on my 29g and loved it. The flow was coming from some PVC fittings into the tank, and I was able to eliminate multiple powerheads. I used a Mag 7 with a SCWD to alternate flow from two different points in my tank.
However, on my 280g reef, I'm very happy with 3 Vortechs using around 64w of power combined. Last time I did the math, it was costing me ~$6 per month in electricity to run all of them in my reef. The upfront cost is a lot, but the daily power consumption is so low that they literally will pay for themselves. Plus they take so little space and there isn't any risk of a leak whatsoever. It is a very sleek solution to flow in our tanks.
Related plumbing - will it be an eye-sore? Will it fit? Is it accessible? Can it be installed with limited restrictions / fittings?
Risk factor - will it leak? What is the worst case scenario?
Power consumption - how much electricity will it use around the clock?
What could go wrong - plumbing could fail, the pump could die, livestock could be sucked against the intake strainer.
I had a closed loop on my 29g and loved it. The flow was coming from some PVC fittings into the tank, and I was able to eliminate multiple powerheads. I used a Mag 7 with a SCWD to alternate flow from two different points in my tank.
However, on my 280g reef, I'm very happy with 3 Vortechs using around 64w of power combined. Last time I did the math, it was costing me ~$6 per month in electricity to run all of them in my reef. The upfront cost is a lot, but the daily power consumption is so low that they literally will pay for themselves. Plus they take so little space and there isn't any risk of a leak whatsoever. It is a very sleek solution to flow in our tanks.
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dcombs44
New member
As this tank is going in wall, the plumbing will not be seen. I am actually building the room, so I hope to build it in a manner in which there will be minimal restriction.
If the pump does die, I still have sufficient circulation to keep things going with the modded maxi jets and sump return.
The biggest worry, as mentioned, is leakage. How do I ensure that if a seal fails or a pipe cracks that I have minimal water loss?
I'm still working on that part. The safest way would be to have the intakes and returns higher up on the glass, which may still work to accomplish my flow goals. That way, only a few gallons would be lost on the floor rather than hundreds of gallons.
I had an over the top closed loop on the 55 for a while, but was not able to plumb it in an accessible way. The pump locked up, so I had to remove it, and have not put it back on.
The snapper pump is pretty good with power consumption. It draws a max of 105 watts at zero head feet. The vortechs are probably a bit better, but that's still pretty good.
I'm got some time before I'll have the chance to start, so I hope to do a fair amount of research in the meantime before I make my first move.
If the pump does die, I still have sufficient circulation to keep things going with the modded maxi jets and sump return.
The biggest worry, as mentioned, is leakage. How do I ensure that if a seal fails or a pipe cracks that I have minimal water loss?
I'm still working on that part. The safest way would be to have the intakes and returns higher up on the glass, which may still work to accomplish my flow goals. That way, only a few gallons would be lost on the floor rather than hundreds of gallons.
I had an over the top closed loop on the 55 for a while, but was not able to plumb it in an accessible way. The pump locked up, so I had to remove it, and have not put it back on.
The snapper pump is pretty good with power consumption. It draws a max of 105 watts at zero head feet. The vortechs are probably a bit better, but that's still pretty good.
I'm got some time before I'll have the chance to start, so I hope to do a fair amount of research in the meantime before I make my first move.
Alaska_Phil
New member
Mainly I was curious. I've got a SCWD new in the box at home that I've hesitated using. My 20 gal, which I'm planning to upgrade to a 29, has been plagued with turf algae and I'm afraid it would clog up the SCWD frequently.
Phil
Phil
dcombs44
New member
That was another issue with the Closed Loop. I made a nice intake. It was basically a spray bar in reverse (based on Melev's model), but when I moved and stirred up my sandbed, I started having hair algae problems, and the intake was always clogged.
So, depending on the pump you choose, the closed loop can be done for very little money. My last one was completely over the top (no drilling) and worked very well when it wasn't clogged up
There are a few pictures of it within this thread somewhere. I'll have to take a look to find what page they're on.
So, depending on the pump you choose, the closed loop can be done for very little money. My last one was completely over the top (no drilling) and worked very well when it wasn't clogged up
There are a few pictures of it within this thread somewhere. I'll have to take a look to find what page they're on.
dcombs44
New member
Marc, what about check valves on the closed loop?
If I put a check valve right at the bulkhead on all of the returns and move the drain up higher, that should mitigate some of the risk of leakage. I mean, I still have to worry about leaking from the bulkhead itself, but the check valves would help with the risk of the actual plumbing leaking, and having the drain higher up would help with the amount of water loss should the drain plumbing fail.
Would the check valves create too much head pressure and kill the flow?
If I put a check valve right at the bulkhead on all of the returns and move the drain up higher, that should mitigate some of the risk of leakage. I mean, I still have to worry about leaking from the bulkhead itself, but the check valves would help with the risk of the actual plumbing leaking, and having the drain higher up would help with the amount of water loss should the drain plumbing fail.
Would the check valves create too much head pressure and kill the flow?
melev
Well-known member
The check valve will defiinitely reduce the flow by a specific percentage. And then there is the fact that stuff may grow in that section - vermetids for example - that will inhibit the flapper from shutting when you need it to.
They seem to practical when you first think of them, but in the end I won't use one.
They seem to practical when you first think of them, but in the end I won't use one.
dcombs44
New member
So, I've had my own auto top off system for a long time now, but I've always had problems with the float switches failing.
I do not cover the float switch wires with water on my systems, but they continually fail and my sump ends up drying out. So then I buy new float switches, replace the old ones, and all is well for a few months until it happens again.
Any electrical gurus know why this is happening? I use a 12 volt relay for 12 volt switches which is supposed to help avoid this issue. The relay always still functions, but the float switches keep failing.
I do not cover the float switch wires with water on my systems, but they continually fail and my sump ends up drying out. So then I buy new float switches, replace the old ones, and all is well for a few months until it happens again.
Any electrical gurus know why this is happening? I use a 12 volt relay for 12 volt switches which is supposed to help avoid this issue. The relay always still functions, but the float switches keep failing.
