My dream 900+ gallon system... possible?

Icthyophile

Icthyophile

New member
Long story short: I have a room in my home with all of my freshwater tanks, but I would like to create a rather daunting 900+ gallon saltwater tank system as a centerpiece. I have a lot of experience with freshwater but no experience with saltwater. I've been researching a lot, but I still have many questions, and I was hoping more advanced aquarists could offer advice.

Basically, I want to know if my plan is possible and well-thought out. Any criticism whatsoever will be relished.

The detailed layout so far:

HTML: 
500 gallon rectangular saltwater reef + fish tank (96" X 36" X 36") [wavemaker w/ powerheads]

Fish:
	1x Long-horned Cowfish
	1x Flame Angelfish
	1x Japanese Swallowtail Angelfish (M)
	1x Niger Triggerfish
	4x True Percula Clownfish (2 Pairs)
		2x Bubble-tip Anemone (Hosts)
	1x Striped Mandarinfish
	1x Diamond Goby
	1x Engineer Goby
	2x Black-ray Shrimp Goby (Pair)
		1x Pistol Shrimp
	1x Firefish Goby
	1x Chevron Tang
	1x Yellow Tang
	1x Blue Hippo Tang
	1x Royal Gramma Basslet
	1x Black Sailfin Blenny
	6x Banggai Cardinalfish
	1x Cleaner Wrasse
	5x Blue-Green Chromis
	2x Black and White Heniochus

Invertebrates:
	1x Queen Conch
	1x Sea Hare (Dolabella auricularia)
	1x Lettuce Nudibranch 
        4x Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
	4x Emerald Green Crab
	1x Porcelain Crab
	1x Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab
	1x Scarlet Hermit Crab
	2x Feather Duster Worms
	20x Astrea Snail
	20x Nassarius Snail
	1x Long Tentacle Anemone
	1x Sebae Anemone
	1x Tube Anemone
	1x Brown Serpent Star
	1x Green Brittle Star
	1x Sand Sifting Star
	2x Long Spine Urchin
	1x Pin Cushion Urchin
	1x Pencil Urchin
	1x Electric Blue Maxima Clam
	2x Flame Scallop

Coral:
LPS, SPS, Soft Corals, Mushrooms, and Zoanthids (Polyps), live rock and live sand

Lighting:
Metal halide + Actinic

Sump: 200 gallons (w/ primary macroalgae & microfauna refugium)
	Protein Skimmers
	Phosphate Reactor
	Activated Carbon Filter
	Nitrate Reactor
	Filter Bags + Foam Filter
	Calcium Reactor w/ controller (ex. Aquadyne Octopus 3000)
	Heater
	Various probes (monitoring, grounding, etc.)
	Bubble trap

Refugiums:
70 gallon tall (36" x 18" x 25") Seahorse aquarium (w/ fans for lowered temp) (2nd Display tank)
                Fish:
		6x Hippocampus erectus Seahorses (3 pairs)
		1x Sea Hare
		Other:
		Shoal Grass
		Sponges (tree sponge)
		Live rock and live sand
50 gallon secondary food source tank (reverse photoperiod, overhead w/ gravity return)
		Amphipods
		Copepods
		Macroalgae (Chaetomorpha)
		Mysid/Mysis Shrimp
		Brine and Red Feeder Shrimp
		Mangroves
		Shoal grass bed
[100 gallon Lionfish aquarium (3rd Display tank)
		1x Volitans Lionfish
		1x Radiata Lionfish
		Live rock and live sand
		Various corals

Obviously this is not a complete plan and there are many details missing. And of course this project would take many years... I'm just trying to plan ahead.

Basically, the main reef tank, the seahorse tank, and the lionfish tank would all be display tanks, while the sump and food source tank would be out of view. I would put up a wall of drywall, behind which would be my maintenance room (i.e. the sump, lighting, etc.) The three display tanks would be displayed through the wall, with the reef tank in the middle and the other two on either side.

My main questions:

1) Is it possible to plumb all of these tanks together? I'm not sure how exactly I would go about connecting them. Would the three display tanks all be connected to the sump, which would pump water back into all three of them? Or would there be interconnections between the reef tank and the other two display tanks, with the reef tank connected to the sump? I don't want them to be separate -- I would much rather reap the benefits of the increased water volume and the sharing of nutrition.

2)Is the stocking okay? I chose fish I read to be compatible, but obviously there are bound to be mistakes. I'm not looking for a 100% peaceful tank -- obviously some predation will occur. I just want the large majority of my fish and crustaceans to not murder each other, and for the rock and coral to remain unharmed. Please let me know what you think.

3)Any specific advice on lighting for the tanks? I've been reading up on lighting and it's honestly very confusing. :hmm5: I'm confused as to which types I should have and how many.

That's all the questions I can think of at the moment. I realize this is a HUGE project, but I'm very serious about making this a reality. Not necessarily now, but in the future. I want to hammer out the plans ahead of time.

Anyway, I would appreciate any advice whatsoever -- mostly about the plumbing. That's the part that is perplexing me the most at the moment. After all, I'm used to the simplicity of freshwater aquariums. Money is not an issue, so please give your advice free of financial constraints (to a degree, obviously).

Thank you! :D

~Icthyophile
 
1. If you have Triggers, they'll wreck your corals.

2. Sea Horses are a lot of work, and can't be plumbed in your main tank because they need temperatures cooler than your main tank will be running. There's a reason they're called the AIDS patients of the ocean. I would recommend you don't explore that path unless you're willing to put in the hours and hours and hours of research, medical care, etc. that they require.

3. Cow Fish, when harassed, can release a toxin that can cause damage/kill many things in your tank.

4. Lionfish are disgusting creatures.
 
Tylt33 said:
1. If you have Triggers, they'll wreck your corals.

2. Sea Horses are a lot of work, and can't be plumbed in your main tank because they need temperatures cooler than your main tank will be running. There's a reason they're called the AIDS patients of the ocean. I would recommend you don't explore that path unless you're willing to put in the hours and hours and hours of research, medical care, etc. that they require.

3. Cow Fish, when harassed, can release a toxin that can cause damage/kill many things in your tank.

4. Lionfish are disgusting creatures.
Click to expand...

First of all, thank you for the response!

1. By and large I've heard that Niger Triggerfish are reef safe (especially given a large tank size), even if most other triggers are not. I've heard quite a few people's successful accounts of keeping these with reefs. Anyone care to elucidate?

2. Could I not pass the water that is going into the seahorse tank through a chiller, and then back through a heater as it comes out? That way it could still be connected but maintain its own temperature. And yeah, I've read that seahorses are extremely hard, but I'm definitely willing to put the time and effort into it.

3. Okay, I'll take the cowfish off of my stock list. Thanks for the heads-up!

4. I think they're gorgeous. To each his own, I guess. ;)

And sam11909 -- thanks for the link! I'll definitely read more of that thread.
 
Nigers are generally reef safe triggers. I have two, and neither have touched any of my corals.

As long as you plan on a tropical seahorse species, temperature will not be an issue, as much as flow. Seahorses require low flow, which is not the case for a reef tank. I plan on getting some for my refugium, as it's low flow and the will have some hitching posts on the plants.

Cowfish can be kept in a reef tank, but some like to nibble on corals and there is the concern of poisoning the tank.

Lionfish are awesome, just make sure that the ones you purchase are eating well, as they can be a hassle to get eating non-living foods.
 
Niger triggers are fine in some cases, but other triggers that are more likely to be reef safe are the blue jaw and crosshatch triggers. My friend has had a blue jaw in his reef for years with shrimp, clams and other inverts with no issues at all. I'm sure a search here on RC on the fish will show a great track record.

I wouldn't have your heart set on the seahorses immediately though; you are going to have enough on your hands if this is your first saltwater rig. I'm not saying that you can't handle it, just know what you are getting yourself into and if it were me, I would just wait a little bit on it. And if you still want to go down that path, I would probably have them in a completely different tank on a different system.

Also, good call on having the lionfish in their own tank. They are fine around corals but will eat anything that fits in their mouths.
 
Actually, any of the pelagic feeding triggers are considered by most to be reef safe(with caution). The pelagic feeding triggers can be identified by their more upturned mouth, such as that of the Niger, Blue Throat, and Crosshatch that have been mentioned.
 
Thanks for the input guys.

The main reason I want to connect the seahorses to the main system is precisely because they are so delicate -- wouldn't they benefit greatly from the stability of a much larger system? As for water flow, I remember reading about a type of plumbing piece that allows you to limit water flow (can't remember the name), so it should be pretty easy to get a lower water flow in the seahorse tank. I definitely wouldn't add the seahorses until the reef was established, i.e. the seahorse tank would just contain shoal grass and live rock until I decided I was ready to deal with the horses.

Thanks for clearing up the Niger issue. I'll plan on getting a Niger with the backup of the more peaceful species that SFeST mentioned if it doesn't work out. I'd rather not risk the cowfish poisoning my entire tank... sounds like it could be disastrous.

But the main question remains: do any plumbing experts know how such a complicated system could work?

Thanks all,

~Icthyophile
 
a 900 gallon is a big tank for a newb... i would suggest you set up a 90 gallon first and make sure salt is the way you wanna go... nothing against you but the wash out rate in this hobby is extremely high, and i would hate to see you spend the thousands of dollars it would take to do a 900 gallon system correctly and then wash out in a year... i dont claim to be an expert in the hobby by any means, i have only been in the hobby for 3 years now, but even in that little time i have seen many come and go... i vote you set up a smaller tank and play with it for a year while you do a little more planning and research for your 900 gallon tank

~Brody
 
As far as plumbing is concerned, Its not that difficult. You need the sump the be the lowest tank, and have all the tanks overflow into that. You can return the water 2 ways. You can have a dedicated pump for each tank (prefered) or you can have one really big pump feeding all the tanks, with valves on each line to dial in the flow required to the different tanks. If you go with the individual pumps, you can set up the system in stages. Meaning that you can set up the reef, wait a while, set up the lion tank, wait a while, and then maybe set up the seahorses.
Im all for the niger trigger, you shouldnt really have any major problems. As for the lion, I agree that they are beautiful, but if you are going to all this trouble of a 500g reef and all the additional tanks, give the lion a bigger tank. They get wide, wider than a lot of people give them credit for, and when you add in rock and stuff, they run out of room quick. Do you want it to survive, or thrive?
As for inverts, I think youll find you need a bunch more snails to do the heavy cleaning, although urchins do a fantastic job, and I would loose the pencil urchin, IIRC they are not reef safe.

And last but not least, take lots of picture.
 
On the trigger topic, I've kept 2 nigers, a pair of blue throat/jaw and a red tail sargassum at one point. The largest Niger(7") was the problem child. Aggressive towards the other triggers and they all ended up going a few months back. The bluethroat and sargassum were very well behaved.
 
A 36" tall tank will required thicker glass and higher watt lights, I would go deeper and not as tall, 96"x48"x30".

Hippocampus erectus require lower temps 72-75 probably. I would agree that making it a seperate system would be the easiest way to do the seahorse tank. The enormous energy requred to lower the temp 5-10 degrees and then raise it again would not make it worth while.

I also agree with using multiple pumps vs. one large pump. If your pump fails then you have nothing, if one of a few smaller pumps fail, then you can continue running the system till you get a replacement.

Also, Shoal grass is very difficult to keep and requires a very deep sand bed. There are better macro choices for a refuge. (Calurpa, chaeto...)

Lastly, it's not even worth trying Flame Scallops, they simply do not survive for very long. They are best left in the wild where they belong.

Sounds like a fun project
 
On the total setup: Cool project, it seems that you have put a lot of thought into this, and that is the first step to having a project be successful. Good luck!!

"2. Could I not pass the water that is going into the seahorse tank through a chiller, and then back through a heater as it comes out? That way it could still be connected but maintain its own temperature. And yeah, I've read that seahorses are extremely hard, but I'm definitely willing to put the time and effort into it."

On the seahorses: Yes you could finagle a system where a portion of it is cooler than the rest of the, however the efficiency (read cost) of maintaining a system that does this may make it prohibitive. For this and other reasons (pathogens introduced in the rest of the system, etc.) I would recommend keeping the seahorses in a separate system.
However, if you are set on this method, you could do it by having a somewhat slow flow-through (maybe 70 or 100 gph) and a DEDICATIED chiller to that portion of the system. The system you are talking about my require a chiller on its own, and I see nothing but problems of trying to maintain a LARGE system volume temperature and a small system volume temperature at two different values with one chiller.
Higher flow can be added to the specific system with powerheads. I personally use a wavebox, it works great for my system.
I do not recommend keeping seahorses at any temperature >74. Bacterial infections that seahorses are prone to move too fast in higher temps. The erectus are a good choice though, there are good captive bred specimens available, they are larger and somewhat hardier than some of the others.
If you do make this system connected to the larger system, I would make it readily able to be disconnected should you add new livestock to the larger tank. IMO it is not worth the risk to the seahorses that something will bring in a pathogen that the seahorses may succumb to. Isolating the tank for a month or so every time something is added may be a good way to lower the chance of incoming pathogens affecting the seahorses. For the same reasons, I would make this the last portion of the system that you build.

Like I said, I think this is a cool and ambitious system and you are obviously thinking through what you are doing. Continue to do your research, and answer the question "why are others giving me the feedback they are?", it helps you understand the why's, weeds out the best advice, and challenges your original thoughts to morph into somehting better.
 
Personally I would want to keep a successful reef or salt tank for a little while before jumping into the hobby with a 900 gallon tank. Not saying it can't be done, but the potential for losses just seems incredibly high. If you do go for it, hope to see a build thread with pics!
 
I agree that a 900 gallon tank is a very ambitious start. You could certainly try a smaller size and see how that goes first.
 
What happened to the old saying buy the biggest tank you can afford? lol maybe this is his tank...lol I still have to agree with mayb doing a one year tank to get the hang of things kinda like building a small scale version before actually constructing such a big tank
 
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