My First Question, of 100s!

[kaylee_gee]

My 20 gallon tank started out as a freshwater with some mollies, platies, and a couple red crabs. The crabs died in the first 24 hours (yes I had climbable surfaces for them to get to the air to breathe). One of my mollies was apparently pregnant and had 35+ fry, 27 +/- are still around, but the momma died within a day of having all of her fry. After a while I also went to Wal-Mart (live and learn!) and saw that they had a Dragon fish! (aka Violet Goby or Dragon Goby) As I had been wanting one of these fascinating creatures for well over a decade, I succumbed and bought one. I read the little paragraph they had about them there, and this is what I learned:
They are aggressive freshwater fish that eat ghost shrimp and shrimp pellets.
Ha but guess what! NO THEY'RE NOT! They are docile brackish water fish who eat algae and sift sand for food. (and who will die if left in fresh water!)
Okay so before I read what they actually eat, I tried to get it to eat shrimp pellets. Nothing. So, not wanting it to starve, I went to PetSmart (again, live and learn!) to buy ghost shrimp. Now we have three pet ghost shrimp. I decided to *gasp* look online for info on this fish, which is apparently a bit more complex than that woman at walmart led me to believe. After doing some more reading, I discover that they need to sift food out of the sand, and that gravel can cut up their bellies. I also read that they prefer warmer water. So back to Walmart (at 10:30pm!) to buy more stuff. I got marine salt (which I read to put 1 cup per 5 gallons for 1.010-1.015 brackish, please speak up if this is wrong!) and algae wafers. They did not carry sand, and I had to wait to buy the heater. Everywhere else is closed that late, so home I went to make the water brackish. And brackish I made it. I hope. The fish are all alive still at least. (And for anyone who is wondering, I did indeed make sure my mollies and platies could take brackish water! Dr Google said so!)
Okay so this morning all was well and good in my tank. I called around and found a mom & pop pet store with loads of fish and supplies. I go and buy a bag of Arag-Alive live sand and ask some questions. I also buy a hydrometer.
So I take all of my decor and fish out of the tank and scoop out 25 pounds of gravel. I then pour the sand in, and the clarifier. It says on the bag that it is fast clearing. Load of crap! I did this at 4pm today, and it is STILL cloudy. I am afraid to put my fish back in. Would that be okay? Its definitely LESS cloudy than it was, but it is still cloudy. It was so cloudy you couldnt see your hand 4 inches from the glass! now you can see through to the other side, barely.
Anyway. So here I am waiting for the water to clear so I can put my water-resistant pals back in their home.
Anything else anyone wants to tell me about violet gobies? (I know he will make a mess with sand, I dont mind!)
Anyone want to bash me on the head for shopping at walmart/petsmart/petco? I know I do!
What are y'alls' favorite places/websites to shop for fish and supplies?
What are some suggestions to make my brackish tank beautiful?
Thanks for humoring me

 

[billsreef]

While the Mollies and Dragon Goby can handle full strength SW, the Platies will be better off at the low end of brackish around the 1.010 mark. A good hydrometer or refractometer is the best way to measure this. For the Dragon Goby, try live blackworms, frozen bloodworms and crushed spirulina discs.

As for the sand and the cloud, with sand quick clearing means days instead of weeks The fish will be fine with the cloudy water.

 

[Badfish_Reefer]

Personally I am not too knowledgable about violet gobies, maybe someone else on here is? Google is always a good resource for that stuff too.

As for the sand, it is completely normal for your tank to be cloudy after adding the sand, it can even last a full day or two. The chemical they give u to add in order to make the water clear helps but won't just instantly make the tank clear.

I won't bash you on the head for shopping at Walmart/Petco since you already are bashing yourself! but, Petco does some pretty inhumane things with their animals so I refuse to shop there even for things that aren't live stock like sand, filters, etc. Not to mention, the people who work there probably don't know much about fish and could give you some wrong advice. Trust your local fish/pet store over Petco.

My favorite website to shop for fish is LiveAquaria.com
As for fish supplies I prefer BulkReefSupply.com - however this site is mainly for reef tank equipment (true saltwater tanks with coral, saltwater fish, etc).

There is definitely a big difference between a brackish water tank and a true saltwater tank. Saltwater tanks are kept at 1.024-1.026 salinity (usually).

Just an FYI- this site might not be the best place to ask for advice on brackish water tanks as discussions on here are devoted to reef tanks which is a completely different beast form a brackish tank. Not trying to be snobby, just want to make sure you go somewhere to ask questions where you can get the best advice! I'm sure there are websites and forums out there devoted to brackish tanks- or even freshwater tank forums probably have sections devoted to brackish tanks.

I had a brackish tank in highschool and I remember it being alot of fun. If I were to make a suggestion about how to make your tank beautiful it would be to not use decorations. I used to use plastic decorations in all my tanks, and they can still look good like that. However, after having my first saltwater tank and using all natural rock and coral, etc as decoration, I couldn't imagine putting anything fake in my tank! It just feels alot more rewarding and special when everything in your tank (besides filters, powerheads, other equipment, etc) comes from nature. Not to mention, the more natural a tank looks, usually the more beautiful it is! I know that for brackish water tanks it can help to put certain types of wood logs, branches, etc in as decoration. Over time they deteriorate in the water which helps keep it brackish. Not sure the exact types of wood that are good to use though, your local pet store can probably tell you. I'm sure there's different types of plants too that can do well in brackish tanks.

I don't really remember what kinds of fish are good for brackish water tanks, but I know there are some cool ones out there that are! You just have to be careful how many fish you put in there since your tank is only 20 gallons (and how big the fish get). The site I listed above, LiveAquaria.com, is a great resource because you can look at different types of fish and it tells you all about them, what size tank they need, water conditions, etc. When you go on that site look under freshwater fish, not marine fish. A lot of freshwater fish do best in brackish tanks if they are from a region like the amazon, etc. However, almost all marine saltwater fish need salinity that is higher than a brackish tank.

I think you have a shot at making a really cool tank. If I were you, I would debate taking out all the mollies and platies, they aren't that exciting (in my opinion) and can reproduce like rabbits. you'll have a million before you know it. You have a small tank, so you really can't have too many fish in there. I know that Tiger Barbs do well in brackish tanks, and they are beautiful fish. You could probably get 4-6 of them for a 20 gallon and maybe 2-3 other fish. Not sure if the barbs are compatible with the goby though, you should check online. Whatever you get, just make sure it doesn't get too big.

My ultimate advice if you want a cool tank is to keep doing your research. Take everything slow, don't overdo it, don't add too many fish. Before you add anything to the tank, fish or plants, research it. Make sure you know what it needs to be healthy. For it to be a really beautiful tank consider having only live plants and natural decorations (wood logs, etc). Keep asking questions, but probably on another site devoted to brackish tanks, so you can get the best advice! Feel free to send me a PM if you have more questions.

Good Luck!

 

[Tuton]

I think the M&P shop screwed you...
LS (Live sand) comes from reefs (SG 1.022-1.025) and I'm not so sure those organisms will be able to handle the hypertonic conditions....
The anti- clouding agent is for the ammonium that naturally comes about when you start a new tank but your cloudiness comes from sand in the water column...

 

[billsreef]

I think the M&P shop screwed you...
LS (Live sand) comes from reefs (SG 1.022-1.025) and I'm not so sure those organisms will be able to handle the hypertonic conditions....
The anti- clouding agent is for the ammonium that naturally comes about when you start a new tank but your cloudiness comes from sand in the water column...

She brought bagged sand, no critters, just bacteria. It'll be just fine with brackish water

 

[Tuton]

She brought bagged sand, no critters, just bacteria. It'll be just fine with brackish water

Cool... learned something new.....

 

[kaylee_gee]

Thanks for all that great info! Maybe I will do away with the mollies and platies, as i started out with 5 and now have 27 fry XD What is something good to do with them?

 

[billsreef]

Grow the fry out and give them away, the Dragon Gobies might pick them off at night, start multiple tanks to keep all the fry....

 

[kaylee_gee]

Transistion to Salt?

Transistion to Salt?

Okay, so if I wanted to make this tank a salt water, not brackish, what would need to change? I have been reading that my violet goby would do fine in salt water, and apparently so would the mollies. If I keep the mollies it will be just males. They're prettier anyway! I figure use these less expensive fish for now until I work all this out. I am still getting the temp right in this tank since I just got the heater yesterday. The water looks much better this morning, by the way! The air stone wasn't liking how deeply it was buried, so I had to stir up the sand a bit to move it closer to the surface of the sand.
If you need more info about my tank and equipment let me know and I will get it for you. I have always wanted a saltwater reef tank, but I have always wanted it to be a BIG tank.


I know they aren't the best quality, but the only camera I have available right now is my webcam, and it is the first time I have used it (I have had this computer for 2 years!)

 

[billsreef]

What do have on that tank for filtration?

 

[GroktheCube]

My biggest piece of advice would be to buy a refractometer and some calibration liquid. You can get one inexpensively online, and most LFSes that cater to reef keepers also offer them. Those silly swing arm hydrometers are not accurate, and often not even consistent against themselves without a very tedious measuring process. A refractometer, properly calibrated, is extremely accurate.

If you want to give the mollies back to an LFS, I'd acclimate them back to FW for them first. I did that recently with some mollies my girlfriend had in her 65g reef. Put them in about a quart of SW, and dripped 5g of FW from a bucket into them over the course of 4 hours or so. I've read that you can do it even faster than that. If you do have them in a bucket for that long, make sure that you give them an air stone and small heater!