My first time saltwater mistakes so far...

[wink4454]

Hello everyone,

I am brand new to this forum and would like to shar my experience so far of my 5 month old reef tank that could be going a lot better. I started out with a 75 gallon because it seemed like the most logical size for the money and I figured I could keep the water parameters in check with this size. I added 90lbs. of live sand and 85+ lbs. (give or take) of live rock. I believe only 35 lbs. may have been atual live rock since it came in a bag with water. The rest came in dry bags with no growth on it at all which was disappointing. I let the water cycle for about a month while adding in things like biozyme and other chems that supposedly add beneficial bacteria to your tank without changing water qualities. I have a canister filter running at about 450 gph since drilling the tank was out of the question ( I had a bad experience with this once in my freshwater tank and it was a disaster). I also have an aquac remora pro hangon protein skimmer since there is no sump underneath. I am running a very powerful light system at 760 total watts (2 x 250 MH bulbs, 4 65 watt blue actinic bulbs + 6 blue led moon lights) for over 10 watts/gallon. I figured this would allow me to do any coral I wanted. I am also running two powerheads (a 750gph and a 500 gph which I forgot to add up top).

At about 1 and a half months, I went to a lfs and bought my first inhabitants (a three striped damsel, a yellowtail blue damsel, 8 bumblebee snails, and 10 reef crabs) just to get the biological process sped up a little. I let that cycle for another month and a half or so and checked the water parameters (I am using an API test kit which from what I have read is bare minimum for a test kit in saltwater). The water levels read as follows...

Salinity: 1.025-1.026
PH: 8.0-8.2
KH: Can't remember exactly but was perfect for what the test kit said it should be.
Calcium: 450ppm
Phosphate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

So I figured great this will be an awesome time to start adding some more fish and finally get some corals in there as well since after all this is supposed to be a reef tank. We went to another lfs (elmer's over in monroeville if anyone is familiar with pittsburgh) since one of my xmas presents from the fiances family was to get fish for the new saltwater setup. I usually do research on everything I buy before I buy it but there are always those purchases that you never expect because you don't know they exist when you are new to the hobby. We ended up getting a neon dottyback, 2 maroon clowns, a copperband butterfly and a xenia coral. I had never done research on the copperband and the marroons were something I was looking into but I wasn't sure what I wanted as far as type of clown went. The fiance ended up liking the marroons and when I asked the salesman if they would be ok together he said sure even though they were the only clowns in separate tanks (I know this shouldve been my first hint).

When we got home I placed the Xenia in the bottom of the tank under a rock structure since I knew they were more a low light species and I didnt want the MH to burn them out. I drip acclimated everyone and as soon as the clowns went in together they started going at it. They fought all night and in the morning, one was hanging at the top of the tank behind the heater. I called the lfs and told them what had happened and since when I got home I did research on maroon clowns I found out that they can't go together unless a much larger one is introduced with smaller one and that way there is no fighting over who will become the dominant female. I ended up returning the one the next day and the other a week later since I wanted this to be a more peaceful tank.

The next problem and one I am still dealing with now is the copperband butterfly. He used to pick at the rocks all the time and he now sits in the corner and does nothing. I did some research on him and found out that you should always ask the lfs salespeople to feed him and if he isn't eating in stores, don't get him. I have bought every food imaginable (from frozen mysis, brine, saltwater mix, clams on the half shell to live brine and blackworms) and he just won't eat anything. The store says that it will be more harm than good for him to come back at this point which I strongly disagree with but they even said when he dies they will try and work something out. I think I will most likely have to chalk this up to a live an learn loss because I am out of options. I would gladly give him to someone who knew what they were doing and could help him but being brand new to the saltwater world I have 0 contacts so if anyone knows of anyone who could help I would greatly appreciate it.

While this was all going on and back to the clownfish part of the story, Elmer's was all out of anemones so the fiance and I went home and found a website where she decided to pick out an anemone that would host a maroon and she liked. We ended up buying a few things from aquacon.com (never ever again) because she thought they looked pretty and it seemed like I had all of the right requirements for them.

We ended up buying a sebae anemone (which was not stated as the white variety but came in completely white with purple tips), a watermelon chalice frag, a sun polyp frag, an orange mini maxi carpet anemone, a flame angel, a yellow watchman goby, a red pistol shrimp and a blue hippo tang (which the fiance really wanted). It was a sizable purchase to say the least. I got a call from the company a few days later stating that they were out of one of the corals and the flame angel but could send everything else now and then send the rest later when they were back in stock. I told them sure and the next day I got the package. The room is darkened when I acclimate since there are windows and I like to make sure the fish are least stressed on my part since they are already on edge. I opened up the bags and to my surprise, there was a flame angel in with the order. I separated the coral, fish and shrimp in separate containers and drip aclimated them for over 4 hours all the while making sure no ammonia levels were spiking. The fish looked good for the most part besides the tang laying on its side which I read was normal but it was hard to tell with little light in the room. The shrimp did great through the entire process and looked to be one of the healthiest species even though they say invertebrates ship worst. The corals were the disappointing factor here. The watermelon chalice had exposed skeleton, the mini maxi carpet anemone had flesh coming off, the sebae was completely white which meant no beneficial algae was left on it and the only thing that looked good was the sun polyp frag.

I decided to put everything in anyways since I wanted to try and nurse the sick corals back to health. The next morning everything looked worse as far as the corals go and the flame angel which seemed healthy the night before had developed ich. I know ich does not happen overnight and it makes me wonder why they would tell me they were out of flame angels and then send me one and the only reason I can think of is that they either had one who was sick and it looked healthy so they sent it and it got sick again or they sent me a fish that had just been shipped to them that day which would stress the poor little guy out way more. I treated the flame angel in a seperate quarantine tank for the ich and so far so good and no other fish are shwoing signs of the ich which is the first good news I have to report.

I got that shipment on friday and sent pictures of what the stuff looked like to the company. I have sent multiple emails but I believe with yesterday being a holiday, I will not here from them until today on any of this.

One more thing is that there has been a bit of an algae outbreak that is being cleaned up nicely by the turbo snails but it seems like every few days I am cleaning the glass. Not a big deal to me I just want to know if this is normal.

I know this is a lot of information to throw at all of you and I appreciate any constructive criticism from the experts. This is my very first saltwater tank but I am not new to fish by any means. I have and currently keep 12 freshwater tanks of all sizes where I have bred over 30+ different species successfully including the electric blue jack dempsey and triple red cockatoo cichlid for those of you who know and keep freshwater species. So what I am trying to get at is that I know how people can be as far as harshness on here for people who aren't willing to listen. I am here to listen and learn stuff from everyone on here but in a respectful way. I do not want people coming onto my thread and telling me I am wrong or stupid or anything like that which I have seen happen before on other forums especially with the reptile guys. Hopefully that covers everything you all will need to start to help me but the main points of this thread would be to help with the copperband, the sebae anemone, and just touch about the slight algae problem.

Thanks Everyone!

C.J.

 

[SneakyPete]

Well, I'm by no means an expert, so I'll just toss back some of the information I have learned here.

I think need to slow down. You are going way to fast. Most people only add 1 or 2 fish at a time to allow the tank to settle back down before adding more things. Also, corals and anemones typically require very stable conditions. Usually establishing a tank before adding corals is a good idea. I can only imagine that there are some swings in water chemistry with all of the livestock you have added in a short amount of time.

I think you should do more research before buying things. Don't make impulsive buys. I know that one is usually tough (for us all).

I think the flame angel might eat coral, same with the butterfly, so watch that.

This hippo tang is going to be a problem. It is a large fish (up to 12 inches) and needs a lot of swimming room. I think the general consensus is that they need at least a 7 foot tank and many people would argue that they would need more. Read the sticky about tangs. Most people wouldn't recommend any tang in a 75 gallon, and those that do would recommend only the smallest.

I think with what you have in your tank, you might be pushing the load about to it's maximum. Stocking levels for saltwater tanks are much lower than freshwater.

The last one is about the ich. Please do research on quarentine tanks. Setting up a QT is a thing everybody should do to prevent ich. Basically, it is a simple tank that has the bare nessesities (mine has a cycled sponge filter, a small power filter, a thermometer and a couple of pieces of PVC) that you put fish in to view them for signs of ich. Keep them there for 5 weeks while monitoring and if they are clear after that time, they can go into the DT. If they get sick, you can then treat them for ich (either in the tank or in another tank if you don't want to "copper" your qt).

If your flame angel had ich and it was in your DT, your DT currently has ich in it (probably in larval stages, which is why you don't see it). You pretty much have 2 options. Option 1: remove all fish from your DT and treat them. Your DT will need to remain fallow for 8 weeks for the ich to go through its life cycle and die. Huge PITA, yes, but if you keep fish in there, you will constantly get ich outbreaks. Option 2: treat your DT with ich medication. There is NO reef safe ich medication. If you treat for ich in your DT, your coral and inverts left in the tank will die. If you treat with copper, you might never be able to have inverts or coral in the tank again. I don't recommend this method, go with option 1

So I hope that doesn't rub you too much the wrong way. I'm trying to be constructive so you will at least have some more research points. I unfortunatly don't know much about the copperband and what you could feed it or about anemones. The algae issues could be due to excess nutrients in the water or not enough clean up crew. In my 40B I have a fairly large crew (5-6 hermit crabs, 8-9 nessarius snails, 7 nerite snails, 4 Ceirth snails, and like 50-60 dwarf ceirths. No algea problems at all). But if it is excessive nutrients, then look at nutrient export. Check your nitrate levels and phos levels, these both can add to algae problems.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Everything SneakyPete said is pretty much right on target. I'll add one more idea, find your local aquarium club, join and ask for help. A local contact can be so helpful in so many ways. RC has a list of local clubs and here is the one I saw in Pittsburgh:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=181

I don't know how it works with freshwater tanks, but with SW you are moving a bit too fast and certainly buying too many animals all at once. And you REALLY need to do your research before you buy (do you buy FW fish on a whim without knowing about it?). Again, a local club can be a huge help with this and you may find local members who have corals they want to sell for less than what the stores charge. Oh, and the ONLY time you trust a LFS person is if they are confirming something you already know. They are there to sell, not to educate... some are better than others, but I wouldn't trust any of them).

The maroon clowns are quite aggressive (a mated pair should get along better, but even they can fight some) and they can be very aggressive with some tank mates. The copper banded butterfly is VERY difficult to keep, even for skilled SW aquarium keepers. The hippo tang will get too big for your 75g tank and it is very prone to developing ich if it is stressed. You really shouldn't be adding anemones until your system is stable and runing smoothly. I know your parameters look good, but you don't have a smooth runing system yet.

Don't give up yet. Your water parameters look good and you have good lighting and just enough flow (a bit more wouldn't hurt, but it's far from needed). Not having a sump does mean you need to keep a close eye on conditions. Find that local club and ask for some local help. It made a HUGE differece for me.

Good luck. :beer:

 

[jerpa]

The key to this hobby is research, patience, and more research. There is a great deal of misinformation around. It usually comes from ignorance and not ill intentions. That said reading all the stickys in these forums will give you a great base of information to start with. You will have a great deal of money tied up in this setup once you have everything established and you need to make it your responsibility to protect that investment. In my case learning a bit of the science behind a reef tank helped me pick out bad info. There are experts in every area that are accessible thru this site. There are also a lot of people with good hearts and bad information. I understand your familiar with freshwater but a reef tank is a whole new ballgame. You should look into joining a local club. Ours is the Pittsburgh Marine Aquarium Society. They have a forum in the reef clubs section here as well as a seperate website. Lots of knowledgeable members including Anthony Calfo and Bean Animal among many others. I'm pretty new as well but feel free to PM me with any questions. I won't claim to know it all but I've been researching these tanks for almost two years and have sifted thru lots of bad info along the way. If I don't know the answer I won't pretend to.

Now for your specific questions the only way to get rid of marine ich is to remove all of your fish to a separate tank and treat them while allowing your display to remain fishless. As stated above read the ICH thread in the disease forum for more info on exact procedures. Moving forward quarantine EVERYTHING enetering your tank for at least 4-6 weeks to make sure it doesn't happen again. There's a sticky on quarantine as well that you should read. I would move the copperband to a seperate tank to treat which will give you an opportunity to try getting it to eat without competition. You may have success but unfortunately its not likely. Sorry. The algae problems are most likely related to the high bioload in the tank. Even with a small bioload you need ways to export nutrients such as skimming,GFO, and macroalgae. Once again you will find a wealth of information on this site about nutrient export. Good luck and welcome to the hobby. This site is your friend and with time, money, and dedication you can fix all your previous mistakes, avoid new ones, and have a beautiful slice of the ocean in your living room.

 

[Sandia97]

I seem to be having some of the same issues with my 3 month old tank (also 75 gallons) as you are with yours. I also listened to the LFS guy which I will never do again without first consulting RC experts! I have to evacuate my tank now due to ICH and not QT'ing every fish before I added it to to the DT. I also have a blue hippo tang which the LFS guy said was fine for a 75 gal and now I undertsand they need at least 240 gal tank!! Watch your tang as they are very prone to Ich! QT every fish before adding to the tank!
Also my clownfish are fighting which the LFS didn't mention anything about to me..good Luck!!

 

[emeraude1484]

+1 on researching before going to an LFS!!! I restarted my systems multiple times! Was sold everything from a porcupine puffer and picasso trigger for a planned reef aquarium to poisoned sebae for a 10 gal aquarium... The trigger and puffer went to a good home when I found an LFS that was more than happy to help me start from scratch the PROPER way Research as much as you can before making a move on something, if you're able to, set up a qt, and take things slow Good luck!

 

[Sk8r]

You're in Pittsburgh PA. There's got to be a reef club. Call the membership and see if there are people who would like to have your butterfly fish and tang. You just are not ready for them yet. Your tank won't be ready for half a year for the tang and probably won't ever be ready for the butterfly.