my house reef (211 g.)

[Lights Are Bright]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6638642#post6638642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TryTheChi
I'v run MSB before and was not convinced that they were not nurtrient sinks in the long term given all the cak that accumulates.

When I did the planning for this tank and sump I did not know about Prodibio and wanted a BB to syphon out the detritus easily, plus the streams would blow the sand every where. Man those fish must be fit

TryTheChi,
I'm sorry, but I dont really understand what you said. Why do you run the DSB? or MSB? whats MSB?

Thanks

 

[ejocam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6031240#post6031240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by iwan
I use a calcium reactor.
However, unfortunately, I can thus only partly compensate for the calcium consumption.
Per day the corals use up to 40 mg/l . This means for about 320 mg of calcium/day !!!
I in addition work with the Balling method

Can you or someone here explain what this "Balling AMethod" is? Thanks, Eric

 

[Reefflections]

Eric
I thought it was just me on the Balling Method.That's a new one on me also.
Curt

 

[jnarowe]

Look up Balling method online guys. It's discussed in most books on reef aquariums.

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645030#post6645030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lights Are Bright
TryTheChi,
I'm sorry, but I dont really understand what you said. Why do you run the DSB? or MSB? whats MSB?

Thanks

Hi LAB

My appols for not being clearer - Medium Sand Bed (MSB). When I was planning this system I wanted nutrient export to be a combination of an algae based refugium, skimming and Rowaphos.

Although I like the look of sand in the main tank, IME it inevitably gets saturated with detritus eventually - and while there are ways to handle that - I'v found it very difficult to access some areas arround the LR structure. I decided that I would go BB (white perspex sheets) on this tank to make it easier to syphon out detritus, which is pushed forward by a pipe drilled with holes every 1inch or 2 at the bottom back of the tank.

I did want the denitrification capacity of a DSB but looking at Carbibsea's recomendations for Mineral Mud - they state that as this product has very very fine particles denitrification takes place at a depth of 1 inch. On top of this I added a layer of Miracle Mud from a previous tank to seed the Mineral Mud and on top of this I added Caribseas 'live' aragonite. The total depth varies from 2.5 - 3.5 inches with denitrification capacity in the very fine particled lower layers, and PH buffering capacity in the upper layer.

In the planning stage of this tank - I had investigated Zeo but was concerned about the reports from ex zeo users, and so decided at that stage that I would always try it out later.

However - when I discovered Iwans thread, saw the results and investigated Prodibio - for me this seemed definately worth a try.

Because my live rock ratio to water capacity is on the low side 0.59/1 (to allow for coral growth - ref dannano RC TOTM discussion thread pages 8,9,10) - it is important to give the Prodibacteria substrate to attach to and so far my MSB looks like its enough, even though its base area is only @20% off the tank base area. (I have a BB part of the sump that I can expand a DSB into if needed.

Another factor for me in going BB is that I have 2 6100 Streams in the 150g main tank - and at full throttle sand would blow arround - there is a little whirle-pool towards the front center as it is which I can see when detritus collects.

Hope that explains my thinking a little better -

Cheers

Simon

 

[Sindjin]

Iwan,

An absolutely AMAZING aquarium! VERY inspiring!
Thank you for posting!

 

[amuruges]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6647527#post6647527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
Iwan,

An absolutely AMAZING aquarium! VERY inspiring!
Thank you for posting!

No kidding, yes it is fantastic....

 

[JOSHUAB]

tagging, Iwan your tank is awesome!!!

 

[Lights Are Bright]

Thanks Simon for the clear explanation.

My tank is also BB and I have no sand at all, not in the tank or sump. If I used prodibio, will my LR be sufficient for the bacteria to hold onto? I'm not sure how many pounds of LR I have b/c I just basically put in what I felt like was a good amount and looks good. My estimate would be maybe a little more than 30 pounds on a 29 gallon.

Thanks

 

[Tagareef]

Iwan & Simon,

How would people with smaller reefs dose Prodibio since the various ampules are pre-measured amounts for larger tanks. For example Prodigest is 1 ampule per 250g, Reefbooster is 1 ampule per 100g and Bioptim is 1 ampule per 50g according to the Prodibio website. My understanding is that once you break open the glass ampule, the contents are exposed to air and must be used immediately. Is there a way you can dose smaller amounts for smaller reefs?

Thanks again,

Luis

 

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6653586#post6653586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tagareef
Iwan & Simon,

How would people with smaller reefs dose Prodibio since the various ampules are pre-measured amounts for larger tanks. For example Prodigest is 1 ampule per 250g, Reefbooster is 1 ampule per 100g and Bioptim is 1 ampule per 50g according to the Prodibio website. My understanding is that once you break open the glass ampule, the contents are exposed to air and must be used immediately. Is there a way you can dose smaller amounts for smaller reefs?

Thanks again,

Luis

I've been in contact with Prodibio, and while it is true the Biodigest and Bioptim should be used immediately, the Reef Booster can be stored up to a week in the refrigerator. The recommended method is to break open the ampule, then use a syringe to pull out the amount needed. The ampule containing remaining substance should then be shoved into a potato slice and can be stored up to one week in the refrigerator.

 

[Tagareef]

So did Mr. Rodriguez @ Prodibio indicate how to utilize their product in smaller reefs? The Reefbooster's ability to be stored for a week would only benefit a tank as small as 50 gallons, since the dose is 1 amp per 100g weekly. You could open one, dose half and save the remaining half for the next weeks dose. I'd really like to know how you are supposed to dose the manufacturers recommended amounts without some of the product going to waste.

 

[piberoptikz]

kikazz!

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6653210#post6653210 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lights Are Bright
Thanks Simon for the clear explanation.

My tank is also BB and I have no sand at all, not in the tank or sump. If I used prodibio, will my LR be sufficient for the bacteria to hold onto? I'm not sure how many pounds of LR I have b/c I just basically put in what I felt like was a good amount and looks good. My estimate would be maybe a little more than 30 pounds on a 29 gallon.

Thanks

Hi LAB

that would give you a LR 1/1 ratio (higher than mine) which is the current standard recommendation without super bacs. - so sounds fine to me. What are your current NO2 - 3 and PO4 params. If after 6 - 8 weeks of prodi these are still detectable - that may indicate the bac need more substrate - if you dont like sand beds anywhere - u could fluidise aragonite.

Cheers

Simon

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6653586#post6653586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tagareef
Iwan & Simon,

How would people with smaller reefs dose Prodibio since the various ampules are pre-measured amounts for larger tanks. For example Prodigest is 1 ampule per 250g, Reefbooster is 1 ampule per 100g and Bioptim is 1 ampule per 50g according to the Prodibio website. My understanding is that once you break open the glass ampule, the contents are exposed to air and must be used immediately. Is there a way you can dose smaller amounts for smaller reefs?

Thanks again,

Luis

Hi Luis

I dont know - personally I underdose Reef booster by half an ampule per week - so thanks for the tip Floridot.

For BioDigest and Bio TPIM/ or Trace - I guess the options are;

1 Syringe out the appropriate proportions and discard the rest or give it to nearly tank; Its not expensive stuff lets be honnest

2. place the remainder in the fridge within an v small air tight container - other bac preparations are dealt with that way. One of the prodi advantages before breaking the glass seal in v long shelf life)

3. Overdose the bio digest- there maybe no harm in that - I overdose by 40% on Bio digest currently as it is and nothing bad has happened.

Just some thoughts

Simon

 

[Lights Are Bright]

What is fluidised aragonite? I dont mind sandbeds, I just dont have anywhere to put one.

 

[TryTheChi]

Hi LIB

Fluididised aragonite is just aragonite put in a fluidining filter such as the Deltec FR509 (but the brand doesnt matter).

The advantage of fluidising a media is that more of the surface area is exposed to water flow and is therefor more efficient.

In the past - fluidised reactors have been critisised for being good at reducing NH3 NO2 but poor at dealing with NO3 - as this is not a low oxygen environment - the flow is too fast

However, it may be worth a try with these super bacs.

The reason I suggest arragonite is that it will buffer your tank with all that acidification taking place - and make a contribution to maintaining CA and Alk.

A further interesting area for investigation is that it may also release bacteri (with a daily shake) to feed the corals as in Zeo reactor method. THe Zeolites seem to have two functions - 1 as an NH3 adsorber and 2 as a bac bed.

I tired to investigate that possibility over on that forum but it was regarded as 'esoteric' by one moderator.

I'm going to give it a try once I feel the effect of the current changes have leveled out. I'll convert my rowaphos reactor for this.

A question will be grain size. In normal opperation, smaller grains are recommended as they are easier to fluidise - but to emulate the Zeo mulm released from the larger zeo rocks - larger aragonite may be better.

CHeers

SImon

 

[Travis]

TryTheChi, why is there so much concern about the acids from the bacteria working with Prodibio and not with ZEOvit? A lot of people run ZEOvit tanks without any sandbeds so I'm not sure why there would be an elevated concern of the acidity effect with Prodibio. I may just be missing the point about needing extra aragonite for buffering. Although, I agree that in this type of system it would probably be beneficial to maximize the surface area that the bacteria can grow on and do its thing.

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6658063#post6658063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
TryTheChi, why is there so much concern about the acids from the bacteria working with Prodibio and not with ZEOvit? A lot of people run ZEOvit tanks without any sandbeds so I'm not sure why there would be an elevated concern of the acidity effect with Prodibio. I may just be missing the point about needing extra aragonite for buffering. Although, I agree that in this type of system it would probably be beneficial to maximize the surface area that the bacteria can grow on and do its thing.

Hi Travis

Zeo are very careful to build up the systems' capacity gradually to take N&P to 0 with 3 phases and frequent monitoring of impact on params, and a major factor for the zeo approach is that the zeolites adsorb NH3 directly - not making it available for bacteria to decompose and therefore less acidification pressure would exist.

I dont know if downward pressure on PH can be an issue with Prodi or not - wasnt for me. However - if I were running an aragonite free tank - I'd be looking for a little insurance - Prodi dosage is the same in week 1 as it is week 56 (except for cycling new tanks) , and assumming equal stocking levels - there is probably more for the bac to do in week 1 for some tanks...?

Like I say - I dont know for sure - just thinking arround the issues.

Cheers

SImon

 

[ps8411]

TryTheChi,

Thank you for your detailed overview of the "Iwan Method"!

I happened to just come across this thread...as right now I'm setting up a 175g sps tank and have decided to emmulate Iwan's tank as I stated before! This week I've added my 200 lbs of LR from Fiji; have (2) EuroReef Skimmers in the sump; and set up a arog MSB of about 2.5 inches. Also just ordered my Tek lighting of T5's (2) 36" units from Sunlight Supply and wil hang them this week. And now as the tank is going through it's cycle I'm pricing around for a Calcium reactor and chiller....

My question to you and Iwan is....

1) Do you recommend I go ahead now and start the implementation of the Prodbio supplements?

2) Can you give me a little list of what other products I need to order from that French Company link you posted above to start with?

Just trying to simplify this process and do it right the first time around!

Thanks for taking the time to get me over the learning curve of supplementation!

PS8411