My new tank!!

[H20Sidhe]

Hi all

I am stoked right now - just got my new 90g delivered this afternoon!! It is sitting in the middle of the livingroom . . .

It has an overflow & has about a 12g sump made by the guy I bought it from & an engineering buddy of his. It isn't quite what I would have done but I wonder what guidance you guys can offer . . . he threw in the pumps, as he doesn't know if they need to be replaced. So I guess my first step is to test the pumps! A Little Giant Model 4-MDQX-SC is plumbed into the main system & a Little Giant Model 2-MDQX-SC is plumbed to run the protein skimmer.

Also, since this tank needs to go where my other tank is set up, I need to empty & drain the 55g & move it out of the way before I can move the new one into place. Is there anyone else who has done this & can offer hints? I am planning on putting everything (live rock, corals & fish) into a 40g tank temporarily that is sitting on the floor in the living room, and run powerheads (& if I can, my old protein skimmer). Once I move everybody into the 40g, I will want to waste no time getting set up! [Plus I need to pick up the rest of the LR & sand from Scott ASAP]

The overflow already has a durso in it

Then the 1.25" outlet pipe runs from the back right corner, under the tank,

to the front left corner and has a drip outlet into the sump. He says it is silent. Is this an old-fashioned wet/dry that I should change? (BTW, I have fountains in the room that already make a constant dripping sound. I am more concerned about machine noise.)

Then the water is pumped into a Berlin protein skimmer

it flows back into the sump and then is pumped back up into the main tank

photo from behind the tank

I think one of the first things I should do is either replace the return hoses, or paint them black to block the light so I don't get algae growth in my lines. Does it seem like too many T's & elbows on the returns? Also, since the returns enter the top of the tank instead of the back, I was wondering if it would be easier to set up a surge bucket (now or later)?

In order to test the pumps, I was thinking that I would want to have the tank moved into place, then fill the sump with salt water. In case I run into problems, I really don't want to mix up enough salt water to fill the entire tank to overflow level for the initial test - then have to empty it again. I do not have enough containers! Also, since I have no idea how long this has been sitting, should I be cleaning out the pipes with anything? So far I've just run hot (fresh) water through them.

Thanks!!

Sherie

 

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

awesome setup...

 

[dots]

Though smaller than yours, I was able to push my 37 tall out of the way by sitting on the floor and pulling it inch by inch until it was out of the way, on carpet.....If you can move it without tearing it down it might save some labor........a well thought plan of action is the best advice I can give and account for every scenario and be prepared for Murphy to rear his ugly head.

Sweet setup!!!!

 

[H20Sidhe]

Thank you chaoticreefer & sacramentodots.

A 37g would weigh about 300 pounds, plus the weight of the stand. A 55 is about 450 pounds, plus stand. I don't think I'm gonna try sliding it. Sure would be easier though. And I'm going up to a 90g! Yeah, I can see where a well thought out plan will really help.

 

[Reefugee]

Sherie,

Nice looking tank.

Not trying to be critical - but since you asked me for suggestion (in a PM), I'd thought I throw out a few.

1. I would consider painting the inside with some sort of marine type of paint to make it water proof. It will protect your stand against water damage. In addition, it allows the bottom part to act as a water pan should you get some leak. It looks like the back whiteboard is made out of particle board. I would also seal that up really well. When particle board gets wet, it breaks down pretty easily. I once seen a particle board stand literally fall apart because it got wet.

2. The plumbing has a lot of right angle turns on it. This will greatly reduce your water flow. You may need to supplement the flow with either a closed loop system or powerheads inside of the tank. I assume the plumbing is not glued together yet right? BTW - the guy you bought it from didn't skimp on gate valves! However, I don't see any bulkheads on the sump. How did he do it without bulkheads or is there some sort of special bulkheads that I don't know about.

3. If you want to reduce vibration, try putting some of those motors on mouse pads. The mouse pads will act like a vibration absorber. It may help a little bit.

I am having difficulty understanding how your sump is designed. I know that you want a refugium, and I am trying to figure out how it would work inside your sump.

I am anxious to see what your tank looks like once you have it up and running!

Minh

 

[pepe.king.prawn]

I'd say, give everything a try, but here's what I see so far. Your skimmer may give you some trouble hooked up as is. That pump looks a bit large for that skimmer. I run a rio 2100+ on my red sea berlin, and when I tried a larger pump it was too much. Also, having the outlets of the skimmer connect together before letting the water drain back to the sump may cause problems as you don't want any restriction on the output side of the skimmer (it tends to overflow out the cup if you do). Anyhow, good luck! New tanks are awesome!

 

[thereefgeek]

Nice set-up! I'd be careful with the Little Giant pumps though. I could never get more than 2 years out of them before the motor died. You also have to oil the motor shaft in two spots about once a month (just a drop or two, and there's a spot in the label that tells where to put it). They also tend to be a bit noisy.

When I set up my 200, I just filled it with purified (DI) water to leak test it and run through all the plumbing, then I dumped in the salt and mixed it right in the tank for a couple days. After that, add substrate and rockwork.

 

[dots]

Excellent point Minh about the right angles, very true. Though it looks like they were needed given the space it was trying to fit into.

Just to demonstrate how much is lost, reviewing my fluid mechanics text.....the equivalent loss of friction of one of those 90's in sch 40 PVC, 1 inch pipe with an inside diameter 1.029 inches, is the same as adding an equivalent pipe length of 30.87 inches at that diameter.

Multiply that by how many 1" 90's there are, calculated out the other diameters, and you have you total loss due to those 90's.
in equivalent length of pipe.

Total loss due to friction can be calculated by other fittings in the same way.

I think that it is pretty amazing that one 90 is the equivalent of adding 30.87 inches of 1" tube. Compare that with the loss per foot on your pumps box,(I know via aqua has them on theirs), and you can figure out how much gph you loose by just using the 90's. By comparision 45's are equvalent to 16.5 inches of 1" PVC, but need two to get 90 degrees which is 33 inches. Even though it looks messy, I think using flex hose wheneve possible would solve this.

That or just get an oversized pump and don't worry about it.......
So if your pump is big enough, the losses will be minimized and you just won't get the output from the pump you paid for.

 

[H20Sidhe]

I guess Murphy has been relatively kind. My first surprise is that the 40g seemed to hold more water that my 55g. Since it is sitting right down on the carpet, my first fear was could it be leaking? It does not appear to be soaking the carpet, so I'm just considering it a fortunate thing that everything fits. The next surprise was when my son pointed out that I forgot the 8 line wrasse when I transferred all the fish. He was sitting in about .5 inch of water wishing he could grow lungs. I rescued him, but I haven't seen him since I put him in the holding tank.

The big surprise - my heater started bubbling & smoking in the holding tank. I unplugged it as soon as I saw it & when I took in out it fell apart in my hands. The fish that I can see look OK, but anemone is closing up. : (

I put the new tank in place, and added a few gallons of water to the sump. I plugged in each of the pumps in turn & they both move water. So I don't think I need to emergently replace the pumps. I have time to think through how to simplify the plumbing & replace the pumps as I need to. There is only one 90 degree on each of the returns after the pump but there are also a couple of 45s. I am surprised that the loss from 2 45s is greater than that of one 90! There are a couple of 90s before the pump. I understand that it is hard on a pump to restrict flow before the pump, and restricting flow after the pump doesn't hurt the pump, but results in less flow.

Thanks for all your input!!

Minh, great idea about waterproofing the stand - too bad I didn't read this until after I already had everything assembled & water in it!!! There are already foam pads under the pumps, but I like the mousepad idea. I will soon find out how noisy this thing is.

S

 

[H20Sidhe]

Minh - What type of marine paint & where is a good place to get it? I can see that I am going to have this whole thing apart & together more than once before I'm through!

Tristan - do you recommend the rio 2100, or is there a better pump to run the skimmer? I seem to have most of my 90 degree angles around the skimmer. Do you use flexible hose or rigid pipe?

Rich - Thanks for the heads up on the Little Giant pumps. I've oiled them both. Is there a pump you prefer with a better lifespan & less noise?

Oh, and good news - we found wrasse & it seems ok.

I'm still thinking I may end up eventually going with my original plan for a sump & put in a 30G tank with baffles, put the skimmer in one compartment of that tank, with an underwater pump to run it & then use rock, sand & macro in the other compartments for filtration. That way I'll have more total water volume & I can hopefully get away with fewer elbows on the overflow and return. Any thoughts?

Sherie

 

[H20Sidhe]

I sure would love to see how you guys are set up.

 

[dots]

I kept mine simple, and set it up before I realized that I would want more flow. Mine just dumps into a filter sock and then back up with one via aqua pump in the sump. Seems to work fine for right now, and figure when I get bored will redesign it better. Pics Below:

Pump is off, that is why water level is higher than stated

Come to think of it and a little off topic:
I can't remember whos house it was, but the pictures from the last frag swap made me think about plumbing a type of system where the pvc is tucked tightly and hidden behind the overflow, splits at the top and rides along the top of the tank dumping out through 45s or ball nozzles along the back and sides. I had thought about necking down the size to increase the velocity and to keep a low profile. I figure that might look cleaner than having powerheads all over the place. But still thinking about it, I figure if I catch the SPS bug bad enough and decide to get rid of all my non SPS I would consider it then.

Has anyone done that?

 

[H20Sidhe]

Dots - thanks for the pics. That is the type of set up I had in mind. Do you get any noise?

I now have my tank filled, the sand is in place and the water is circulating. And the thing is almost as loud as my jacuzzi tub. Water & pumps both need to be quieted down. Can anyone recommend a nonsubmersible pump with enough pressure that is quiet? It would be nice if it would last more than a couple of years as well.

Sherie

 

[dots]

It hums a little with the pumps. I went low tech and cut the discharge line long enough, so it is below the water line.....to water fall. Isn't overly loud compared to the koi ponds outside the deck in the complex.

 

[thereefgeek]

I noticed you have valves and unions on the inlets and outlets of the pumps... excelent idea. I would completely remove the pumps about once a year and completely clean up the gunk that tends to grow in the impeller housings. Also, oiling the pumps (like the manufacturer recommends) tends to attract dirt and dust. Maybe take a vacuum with a brush attachment and clean up the motor housing while you have it out of the stand. It's when the motor can't breathe and cool it's self is when they're likely to burn up. As far as a quieter pump, you can't beat the Sequence Reefflo or the Dolphin. Problem is that they're both shaft driven, and shaft seals eventually wear out and could leak (mine are remotely located out in the garage). For a mag driven pump, the Little Giants are good if you take care of them, but the Japanese Iwakis have a better reputation for lifespan and quietness. Either way the mouse pad is a good idea if your tank is near the T.V.

 

[H20Sidhe]

New developments:

My need to quiet this thing down is now reinforced, as I received several complaints that my housemates couldn't sleep last night. The amount of noise exceeds (and is similar to) that from the dishwasher.

Rich - Thank you for the advice. you gave me precisely the information I asked for. You have given pros & cons of several types of pumps. Between posting my q & reading your answer I was doing some other research and I find several people rave about the Poseidon PS2. Mag driven AND quiet?!?

Anyone here with personal experience with the Poseidon PS2?

***And now I realize I have a really stupid question - I researched this for almost an hour because I really don't want to look stupid. Don't I need to put some type of prefilter material in the top of my overflow to stop inhabitants from being swept down into the sump? I was assuming some type of sponge material . . . I know with hang on overflows there is a mesh and a sponge, but for drillled overflows - can you believe I couldn't find any information? Help please! ***

 

[Reefugee]

I have a Sequence Dart, and it's a great pump. It's very quiet compared to my Japanese Iwaki pump. The only problem with a Sequence Dart on your tank is that the Dart has a lot of flow (3600 GPH). You might be able to throttle it back, but you're going to have to throttle it a lot. Regarding the noise - eventually you get used to it.

I wouldn't use a sponge material for prefilter. You might want to try using some sort of strainer. http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_plumbing_parts_fittings_bulkheads_strainers.asp
I don't have a strainer on my durso stand pipe. In one incident I had a LMB surf down my overflow into my filter sock. He was probably in there for a day before I noticed. A strainer is probably a good idea - but it hasn't been on my top list of things I have to do.

Minh

 

[H20Sidhe]

What is an LMB? [Large Mouth Bass, Lost Marine Boy? ]

I tried a small piece of fiberglass windowscreen this morning. I cut a 1.5 inch wide strip the length of the 2 sides of the overflow. I put it in the tank side & the flow holds it in place. I like the mesh size, and I didn't think it would restrict the flow significantly, but it did. The tank almost overflowed. I throttled down the pump and my older son decided to enlarge the mesh on the screen (!) He is right now cutting the individual strands of the screen.

Minh - If you are interested in trying some screen on yours, I have plenty more. I'm not sure if Ryan will be willing to customize another one though.

Thanks again for all the help, advice & support!!

Sherie

 

[thereefgeek]

Lawn Mower Blenny?

Plastic gutter guard from Home Depot (near the roofing material). Supposed to keep leaves and junk out of your rain gutters, but seems to work better for anything but that!

I agree with Minh, don't use filter material inside the overflow or your tank will do just that... all over your carpet. Those teeth on the O.F. will keep just about every little critter inside the tank.

 

[H20Sidhe]

Lawn Mower Blenny!!!
I didn't think of that.

Tank is running. Solved the noise problem. Return lines were touching the wall. The wall amplified the sound & spread it through the house. A sheet of foam between the hoses and the wall stopped it.

I thank you all for all your help.

Once I get the lights, I think all I need is back-ups for the pumps. I know Murphy will make sure that the pumps die 5 minutes before I need to leave for the airport, or some time like that. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. It sure is nice to just sit & watch the tank!!

Thanks again!!

Sherie