My Prized Muelleri Butterflyfish has bumps all over body

[tylersarah]

Not laughing anymore, I did a thorough inspection for visible flukes, I found what I think may be one and around it the area is discolored. When the light hits it just so it looks red under his scales. I know flukes acts like a portal for all sorts of other secondary problems. I'm not sure what I can do in conjunction with Formalin to treat for infection.

 

[SDguy]

I'm sticking with my recommendation.

 

[tylersarah]

 

[SDguy]

Are you concerned about the paleness?

 

[tylersarah]

No, the redness in the middle brown stripe. There is also a fluke like apparatus attached in that area and some of the redness is slightly raised.

 

[SDguy]

Here's my take. Fish will not die from flukes unless they are infested with them (red areas don't happen from flukes). Based on what you have done with this fish, there is no way it is infested with them. So, since we disagree on what's going on based on the video (I apologize for this since being attacked for my opinion from others) I still say wait and see....

 

[vitz]

I'd like to add that I'm not inexperienced in this hobby. I hyposalinity QT all my fish, I've been in this hobby for a decade, but where did I mess up? I added a dozen snails about a month ago, that's the only explanation. When acclimating I set up little dip bowls and swish each snail in them to hopefully remove any parasite, clearly that is not enough.

Peter, I remember reading that the snails transferred Ich to your butterflyfish. I wouldn't mind hearing more details if you have time.

I should go to work...will take better pictures later.

Sarah

why do you assume it's YOU that messed up ?

 

[vitz]

The hawkfish didn't make it through the night, I woke with that feeling at 4 AM and checked on the fish, he wasn't doing well. I humanely put him down and did a post mortem freshwater dip to see if any worms appeared, they didn't so I can assume internal at this point. In June I posted about the hawk looking bloated and I think he's been carrying worms since. Here's a photo of his abdomen, I thought it might help indicate something if these symptoms mean anything other than severe bloat:

definitely an internal bacterial issue

 

[tylersarah]

Here's my take. Fish will not die from flukes unless they are infested with them (red areas don't happen from flukes). Based on what you have done with this fish, there is no way it is infested with them. So, since we disagree on what's going on based on the video (I apologize for this since being attacked for my opinion from others) I still say wait and see....

Hey, I always welcome your opinion, in fact I look forward to it. The fish is not infested with flukes, but I believe there are still flukes present. I watched his behavior change throughout the Formalin treatment. Once off treatment the behavior changed to where I was about 2 weeks ago, slight irritation. I believe the redness is a secondary issue from where a fluke is/was attached. I'm not going to overreact, I'm going to wait and see what happens.

 

[tylersarah]

definitely an internal bacterial issue

Two of my fish had these bloat symptoms for several months.

 

[SDguy]

The redness is not the same from what I can tell... but I of course leave it to your opinion.

 

[vitz]

No, the redness in the middle brown stripe. There is also a fluke like apparatus attached in that area and some of the redness is slightly raised.

this could also be a type of 'anchorworm'. most will present a small red area around the point of attachment

my leaning, towards the main issue, is bacterial, given the hawk, and red coloration on the butt. either vibrio, euronema, etc...

 

[tylersarah]

definitely an internal bacterial issue

...due to anchorworms, possibly?

 

[vitz]

who knows? again-plz remember that even w/the best pics, alot of this stuff is educated guesses at best, quite often. but i doubt an internal bacterial issue would have been caused by any anchorworm, and i'm not sure by any means what your fish have yet.

diagnosing of humans by humans is tricky enough, hehe. when you have a completely diff animal who can't really talk to you, often it's any one a poss. dozen things.

all you can do is try things one at a time, and use process of elimination, starting with what you THINK is most likely (of course, that get's weighed against a time factor, if there is one).

 

[tylersarah]

What I do know is back when all my fish were in a very dire state of heavy breathing what brought them back was Prazipro, by no means did it eradicate anything, but it was on the right track.

Depending on the progression of the infection tomorrow it may take precedence over what I think is still a low level of flukes in the tank. Due to the location I think the infection is caused by whatever the white bump is. I've been throwing around ideas of setting up another qt and moving the Muelleri into it with no formalin and something to treat the infection - Bifuran (which cleared up the mouth infection last month in a couple days) or nitrofuracin green powder, only because I heard it works well. I think my lfs sells kanamaycin, I have no idea which is preferable. Thoughts are very welcome.

 

[tylersarah]

Got a good look at Ziggy in daylight, the attached white apparatus is gone and the redness doesn't appear to be spreading, there's two red blotches totaling 7 scales worth. The redness is below the scales and there's inflammation in the affected area. Overall his behavior is good and eating well, blackworms and frozen seafood.

I put a polyfilter behind a carbon pad and am running those, no meds, plus a 50% w/c later today. That will give me a couple days to observe and in the meantime remove meds in case I feel it's necessary to treat the infection down the road.

On a side note, the female percula clown continues to do well, but she's lost 70% of her black coloring, it continues to recede from the top down. Possibly a breeding response to not having a male around?

 

[tylersarah]

It's now the third day off meds, also completed two 50% water changes, been increasing salinity, ran carbon and polyfilter. Due to the white apparatus' attached near the lesion like red spots on the side of the body I did my first fw dip for 4 mins 30 secs. White bumps did not fall off, they're still here today. During the dip I noticed his mouth infection is returning, now I did not treat for this properly (meaning full treatment period) last time due to the flukes, but it temporarily went away. This time I plan on running a full course of erythromycin beginning tomorrow and starting today I've been feeding him kanamaycin in frozen food.

Fingers crossed!

 

[tylersarah]

Well, despite the expedited shipping the erythromycin won't arrive anytime soon, I was refunded the shipping, but that doesn't help the fish. I dosed kanamycin into the water to use in conjunction with the medicated food.

Once again, the pictures leave a lot to be desired (I really tried with this one):

Below the glare line in the middle brown stripe the lesion like area is visible. There is some redness, the scales are raised, inflammation is visible from the profile view and there are a couple white apparatus' attached next to the inflammation. The white apparatus will begin small and hard like, very bright white and after a couple days grows larger and more flesh like, hangs off the fish (can visibly see it moving as he swims) and then falls off. Above the glare line is an example of one that can be seen moving in the current as the fish swims. The fw dip didn't seem to affect the area. Does this signify anything to anyone?

 

[Alberta-newb]

Sorry I can't provide any advice but tagging along as I went through the same with a pyramid butterfly a few months ago. Same type of condition, mid body bump in white which later looked like it was detaching. I tried a 10 day round of prazi which looked like it removed the bump but area had red/brown lesion after. I started treating with KanaPlex (kanamycin) but saw no improvement. A week later I lost the fish. Good luck with Ziggy, you're doing a great job and I hope you find the key to resolving this difficult condition so we can all learn from your experience.

Francis

 

[HumbleFish]

Based on your description of the symptoms, I do believe antibiotic treatment is the correct course of action at this point. And erythromycin is an excellent choice. But shouldn't you be able to get that locally in Milwaukee? Petco/smart sells both API Erythromycin and Maracyn I believe.