My T5 55g tank....and coral lightening

I agree that we are all still learning with the T5's. It is just a matter of time till we figure it out. It is obvious they have the intensity needed to grow just about anything. We just need to figure out how to tweak them to get the crazy growth and color. I had great luck with LPS under T5's. The new tank is SPS so hopefully I will be able to play with lamp combinations to get an idea of what the SPS like.
 
There was a follow-up I meant to post as well:

This seems to be mostly impacting really soft items (i.e. brain, hammer, frogspawn, torch, etc). There seems to be NO change on leathers, zoo's, xenia, and definitely not acan's.
 
My frogspawn looked killer under the T5's,

This was after a year or so.

38553tankjan05.JPG
 
I have MH now and my frogspawn came back to original color but when I had T5s only it started to come back when I swithched one of my T5HO AquaBlue bulb with 6000K sun bulb.
 
So the color was better under the 6k? If so that has been my experience too. I think my problems started with AB bulbs.
 
If I used two 6000K bulbs I probably didn't need to buy the MH, but with MH the frogspawn has better browish color.
 
would love an update from the active participants in this thread =)

Dvanacker: Whats your current bulb setup? (Brand/Bulb). Any comments on current colouration?

Horace: How do you like the DE bulb setup? Do you notice a significant improvement from running T5's? Would you recommend the switch to other people?

Mothra: How are things looking with the 3000 K bulbs? Any info/improvement that you can comment on?

Grimreefer: What bulbs are you currently running with your SPS setup? Do you have a new "recommended" bulb combo?

Thanks guys!
 
What about this theory

What about this theory

Just wrote about 5 paragraphs of stuff, not going there again, so lets condense this shall we?

I think I agree with the basic assumption about T5's bleaching and fading SPS corals, I also think they can contribute to and turn them BROWN as well. (though probably NOT the only reason)

For bleaching I think it is light Intensity doing it, and changing location, time, and location of lights can only help, along with experimentation with different types and brands of bulbs.

I for one am going the 03, 6000k route for now. With maybe a B+ thrown in there in the 640-50 NM range for good measure. Right now Im only running a CUSA 4x54 Watt 48" so im limited to experimentation, I am getting a 6x54 Tek light shortly. I dumped my 10k bulb today after reading this thread 2x through, I think this is just too much light for the SPS right now in my tank. So Im goin with 6000k and 03s... heck even the 3000k sound interesting. What about the 20k T5s I have seen on Reef Geek? Anyone try those? That sounds interesting.. They are also pretty affordable?

Ok onto the browning/bleaching issue: I figured I better study up on Zooxanthellae expelling and increasing in corals If thats they reason they were bleaching, (most agree too little expelling) and why they are turning brown (too much building up)

Lets assume for a minute that, its true that Zooxanthellae expelling causes bleaching (most agree on this) and on the flip side lets say for now that INCREASING Zooxanthellae in the coral tissues causes BROWING (assuming it does) For Now Im concentrating on the BROWNING issue, as I think the Reason BLEACHING most of the time, is pretty evident at this point.. (too much light) Though color darkening of Corals needs more study IMHO.

Found an interesting article in my search for why my SPS were turning brown and bleaching using my T5s (just like I found this link) found here. I think the bleaching problem is solved.. but the browning.. mmmm not so sure what is REALLY the cause of this.

First if you want to read up on the subject of Zooxanthellae

Heres a great article on the subject..
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0998/0998_4.html

Here is another link on keeping the coloration of SPS. What caught my eye was another mention of the WORD "Astaxanthin"and its relationship to COLORIZATION of SPS and other CORALS.

I know I had just seen this word, and then I realized where.. I had just purchased some new powder on EBAY thats supposed to help with the color of SPS, when reading its contents again, I saw the same word.. "Astaxanthin" Could this be the missing link? I dont know, kind of curious that I saw it twice now in relationship to SPS coloration. Now by a very RESPECTED guy in Eric Borman and now on the EBAY auction. The Ebay was just a stab in the dark for 8$ I figured I would try it..

I should have it in a few days I will keep you posted. Here is a link for this stuff. Maybe someone has already tried it?



He seems to think its related to FOOD rather than spectrum.. He might be right.. Also note something interesting that is found in corals that have DARK color and that is
 
Sorry about the post above... I Got caught in the dreaded backup While editing that post and admin wouldnt let me finish during reboot so it got left incomplete.. Anyways...

Below is the link about coloration of SPS, Also, Here is a quote about astaxanthins just to whet your whistle, its good reading! :)

"And most notable is the fact that although unclassified or unnamed, most corals and invertebrates seem to have predominant coloration due to the presence of one or more pigments called astaxanthins. And, they all obtain these pigment produced colors from their diet. "

http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0597/0597_2.html



Here is the EBAY sale for the Coral powder that contains astaxanthins

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...tToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Lastly what about the relationship of UV light emissions of HQI/Halides compared to UV output of T5, and how they might effect the COLORATION of Corals? esp.. SPS?

I think this was asked somewhat before, But do T5s generate ANY UV light? Also, Im wondering about the Effects of the Correct UV radiation produced by halides compared to T5 and how it might EFFECT coloration? Could it be that the corals in Halide Tanks, are generating the pigments from the Zoox as PROTECTION from different spectrums of UV light found mainly in HALIDE tanks? mmmm

We all know that Halides produce UV light, and that the glass helps protect the animals and corals from overexposure to the harmful amounts, yet allowing some to pass.. Maybe its a stupid question, just wondered if T5s even produce ANY UV light at all?? Any harmful UV? and does the 03s (which I really like the look of) produce MORE UV light than the other spectrums? Do the 3000k produce even more? as they lower down the spectrum?

Im assuming T5's and other flourescents can, as i think they are used in tanning booths.. etc.. hehe.. I just wonder how much our T5s in the various configuration and colors are producing any if at all UV? and what this might have to do with coloration of our corals fading/browning? compared to halide tanks.

but seems to me I have ALSO seen brown corals in HQI/HALIDE tanks though too.. hehehe

One other interesting thing Borneman said in the link above on coloration was that the coral might be feeding on its OWN zoox SOLEY when underfed, thus turning them brown? Also interesting.

Lastly I like Grim's idea about moving a frag BACK into a Halide TANk, but I think an even better test would be to take a HALIDE TANK with GREAT COLORS, and REPLACE it with all T5s and see what happens to the corals. Change NOTHING but the lights, and if possible do NOTHING else different during the TEST..and watch what happens to the corals. This would sorta eliminate the other variables as the causes that might be found in other's tanks when removing the frag BACK to a Halide tank as Grim Suggested.. ie, nutrients, current, husbandry being the cause of fading, browning, because the ONLY difference is the change in lighting.

In other words it might just be nutrients in the Halide tank and the presence of UV light found in the Halides only, causing the corals to color up nice and dark. Would also sorta eliminate nutrients as the SOLE reason (kinda) as the nutrient levels dont change, only the lighting.

Also how are the rest of you coming along with your experiments with the T5s combos and have any of you gone back the Halides?

Here is the link to the 20k T5s Im thinking about trying one.

http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=lt-t5-tb&offset=0
 
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cyclopeeze contains tons of "astanxwhatever"


that 20K bulb is only 13 bucks? wow, may have to try one, but i would like grim to put his magic to it first and get some numbers on it


After trying 2 ATI blue +, 1 GE daylight, 1 ATI aquablue...i realized it was too much. I had to start my corals down at the very bottom. Shoot some zoas i got just now got out of the cave. Some, even a monti cap i had to keep at the bottom, as when it was at the top it was "lightening". So now i am at

3 ATI blue plus, 1 ATI aquablue..i like the look however i am going to pull the AB and try it with a sun bulb and see what it does, also going to toy around with some actinics when i get some bulbs



IMO the 3 blue plus with 1 Aquablue does look somewhat 20Kish
 
cyclopeeze contains tons of "astanxwhatever"


that 20K bulb is only 13 bucks? wow, may have to try one, but i would like grim to put his magic to it first and get some numbers on it


After trying 2 ATI blue +, 1 GE daylight, 1 ATI aquablue...i realized it was too much. I had to start my corals down at the very bottom. Shoot some zoas i got just now got out of the cave. Some, even a monti cap i had to keep at the bottom, as when it was at the top it was "lightening". So now i am at

3 ATI blue plus, 1 ATI aquablue..i like the look however i am going to pull the AB and try it with a sun bulb and see what it does, also going to toy around with some actinics when i get some bulbs



IMO the 3 blue plus with 1 Aquablue does look somewhat 20Kish


This is one grow out tank. I like the T5 concept but in a year or 2 when i build my cube and move these corals, that tank will likely be 400 W 20 k halides, albeit supplemented by some T5's.
 
I just checked my Liquid Life bio plankton for corals with Cyclopeeze and didnt see the "anthraxawhatever-fragilistic" :) mentioned on the label, but doesnt mean its not in there either.

I will be target feeding my brownies with this stuff now, I have had it but just didnt use it that often. Blow it right on them with baster..

Yea I just ordered a 20k ill keep you posted on what I think, ordered one last night, what a deal! hahah.. I was checking to make sure it was a HO- T5 for that price, I couldnt believe it.

I will eventually come up with a light combo Im happy with, I think the 10ks were just too much, but time will tell. Everything looked BROWN in my tank when I used them, just replacing with B+ although right now its too blue, things are already more PURPLE and I see colors in my corals I didnt know where there on the brownish frags, I see slight greens now too.

Looking forward to the 20ks and a few more 03s.. and especially the 6000k to replace the 10ks

Hey being a noob with SPS, when do the polyps NORMALLY open and extend out with SPS, at night? like most corals, or during the day when food triggers them to open? Just wondering.
 
Interesting stuff guys.


Check out these graphs

blue_plus_b.jpg


super20blue205420w20Helios.jpg


I don't know how accurate the graph for the ATI Blue Plus is but I know the second was taken off a computer hooked up to a spectrometer measuring Helios Super Blue lamp, yeah that cheap Chinese crap. You notice the lamp not only has UV output but Infrared as well.

If you follow the link for that 20K blue T5 at custom aquatics you will find this at the end of the list of T5 lamps

http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/itemdetail.asp?itemid=LT-VA27211

10.99 for a 54 watt T5 I actually use. They look really close to a blue plus but are slightly more towards green to my eye, a slightly torquoise look to my eye. The lamp is a little longer than the T5's we typically use so you would have to move out an endcap to mount them. For 11.00 I think it is well worth the money and hastle to try them out and see what you get. Even if you had to change the lamp every 6 or 8 months it is a pretty good deal.

They do market a 45 inch lamp that is a direct replacement for the typically used T5 (ATI, Geisemann etc,) but I am not sure of any online stores carrying those yet. Premium aquatics sells the lamps and the plug and play fixture for them which might be the way to go if you want to try them.

I am not an SPS guy so I can't really offer an opinion of what they will do to colors. I know a guy from Helios and he told me they specifically worked to inhance UV and Infrared on these lamps to make the output more like what metal halides produce. If the theory of UV light causing corals to color up as protection is true these lamps could be the hot ticket.
 
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And if you read about coloration on that Borneman article youll see that astaxanthins exist as PIGMENTATION generators in ALMOST ALL COLORATIONS of marine life.. I think its found in 2-4 categories on there..

Hey Grim, are there any good computer graphs of a typical Halide Bulb out there showing the spectrum of lights and UV/Infrared they produce? That might be the place to start.. To see what is actually being produced by say a 20k HQI/Halide bulb. To compare T5 spectrum too.. I would guess the UV has to be down pretty low in the 300 range with HIT/Halides even with Quartz glass.. Im sure good spectrum graphs MUST exists. for this, Anyone got one handy? (looks over Grims way raises eyebrows) hahaha..

Here is a fairly informative link to spectrum analysis for everything from HQI to even LEDS! Not the greatest graphix and are in PDF (whicH i hate) will look for better full color ones.

Here is a spectrum for 400W HQI (need to compare this with T5 outputs in different configurations)

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphalo/old_pages/pdf/spectra/HQI400D.pdf

Here is the index

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphalo/old_pages/lamps.html

Thats interesting about the infrared too.. mmmmm...

So the UV 03s, in theory would put out some UV light in Moderation correct? Compared to the higher NM range Normal T5 bulbs which probably? dont put out any if at all?

I wonder about the 3000k you were trying? what is the NM range of a 3000k?

I think memory serves me that UV sterilizer lamps are in the 254NM range ideally.. to kill everything.. which we dont want.. So there has to be a SAFE sweet spot somewhere between 254-420NM bulbs that would produce SOME UV light with which to experiment with.

Im wondering at what NM range does UV light start to be generated when Using T5s? Looking at your graphs Grim, especially the computer one, it seems like that light produces down into the Middle 300NM range... That might be interesting to try that out..

Not sure about My UV theory, but seems to make sense as one of the few ELEMENTS missing with T5s would be the production of UV light compared to a halide, unless you get into 03s possibly, but not sure THEY even produce much if at all. But the infrared also opens up another can of worms too.. Red light..mmmm

Thats interesting about them increasing the UV output Grim, they may be onto something with that. Its just a hunch I have about coloration of SPS and T5s related to UV or the lack therof when USing T5s... I would also think if 03s produce UV (which i think they do) than using 03s would be almost a necessity when running T5s for SPS, if infact UV is a color factor.
 
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Obviously looking at these graphs, that Halides MUST be putting out UV even when they PEAK at different NM ranges and they end at usually about 380-400NM. Or they wouldnt require UV shielding now would they? So this MUST mean that UV light is being produced at as High as 400+NM range, or greater. No expert here, but it probably is producing at all the NM ranges just not in the "harmful" spectrums?

I guess the real question is, is at what NM range does UV start being produced? And further what is the LOWEST SAFE level of UV light for Reef tanks? And if T5s are NOT producing safe UV light than maybe they should start?

Also we know that Halides provide good color for the most part for SPS, particularily the 20k versions, interesting to note that the 20k T5s PEAK at 420NM? while it appears that Halides spike at about 450-60 Nm?

Here is a graph for a 400W 20k from the link you provided

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe....length=400&Maxwavelength=700&Submit=Plot+Data
 
Not all Halide lamps require a UV sheild. Only the DE's and then some of those don't really produce enough UV to cause issues. 20K lamps don't typically produce a lot of UV which is any light below 400nm.

Cant link to the graph but hit sanjay's site and compare 2 lamps, a 10K and 20K XM and look at the difference in UV produces.
 
I thought it was the quartz BULB itself around the single ended bulbs that cut down on the UV light? And that any Halide produces UV including the single ended ones? But, Since HQI double ended bulbs are smaller normally, they also have smaller area than the single ended type of filtering glass so they require further filtering using UV glass?

I could be way off here, but I think single ended ones produce just as much UV light as double ended bulbs, but the glass around the single does the job?

Anyways not to get derailed here, I think there is something to check out with the spectrum of HQI lighting UV/INF light that is created.. Also I noticed with the 20k there are several SPIKES at different NM ranges above 500-600.

Mainly spikes at 550, 590,670, 690.

Dont know if this effects anything maybe not, but interesting to note nonetheless. Also these graphs seem to level off above the 700 range.. I didnt see how far that infrared chart went since it was smaller ie.. when it ended, but there seemed to be a spike in IF light right at the end of the Helios light... right at about 790 NM range.

When does the INF wavelength start at what NM level? just curious
 
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