My T5 55g tank....and coral lightening

[hskim]

I¡¯m now 100% sure that T5HOs are too bright for most of corals in my tank. The acropora tenuis that I noticed first thing to be bleaching at the base is the only coral in my tank that is barely handling the T5HO lights. It has nice blue tips and it is shooting off branches in all direction and it is growing well. And dvanacker, since I replaced one of 11000k aqua blue bulb with 6000k sun bulb, the bleached base of acropora tenuis shrunk. All other corals are still bleached. Montiporas have stopped loosing color but they are 90% lighter in color than when they were first put them in the tank. The Zoanthids are almost going transparent now. My Zoanthids in my avatar, which is about a week old, are already lighter in color. By end of this week I¡¯ll have two 6000k sun bulbs and two blue plus bulbs in my 4 bulb 24¡± Tek fixture and I¡¯m going to wait couple of weeks to see the result. My tank is small and things happen real fast, within weeks.

After I put in the 6000k bulb I waited few days and looked at the bulbs and the 11000k aqua blue bulb is way brighter and totally white compared to 6000k yellow bulb. I not sure but the spectrum of this really bright wicked aqua blue bulbs might have to do something with it. The PAR of the bulbs might not matter too much in this case. I know 6000k bulbs have way more PAR but that is what these corals might need than totally white bulb like aqua blue bulbs.

After all this if the corals are not coloring up I might just go with 150 watt 13000K MH and couple of T5HO Blue Pluses. I fell in love with T5HOs 2 years ago when my tank was just FOWLR tank and I really want to make it work for my new mini reef, it made my tank look so much better back then, but I might have to say bye, bye now and move on.

 

[dvanacker]

I really think your gonna take a step backwards if you go to 6000k bulbs...but it's your choice.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

The aquablue produces more PAR than the 6000K sun lamp.

 

[Jacob D]

My colors looked better before I changed bulbs at 18 months, and guess what I did - swapped out my 6000k for aquablue. I still have a few of my old blue bulbs sitting around I'm really tempted to take the aquablues out and run 4 blue+ and 2 6000k for a while and see what happens... someone talk me into it...

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7590535#post7590535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
My colors looked better before I changed bulbs at 18 months, and guess what I did - swapped out my 6000k for aquablue. I still have a few of my old blue bulbs sitting around I'm really tempted to take the aquablues out and run 4 blue+ and 2 6000k for a while and see what happens... someone talk me into it...

Do it, DO IT NOW!!!! Quit reading and get to work

Sounds like a good idea to me. It could be that the Acros are getting too much blue or at least not enough red. I don't think you could give them too much blue. I think it is possible that the aquablue lampjust cant give the corals enoigh red spectrum and perhaps the GE is just overkill. The 6000k Might be the answer.

 

[Horace]

I just thought I would update you guys on my tank since reducing the photo period of the daylight bulbs, and also removing the GE. Just as a reminder my old setup was:

B+
AB
B+
GE
B+
AB

It is now:

SA
AB
B+
AB
B+
SA

While I like the color of the tank, and I think some of my colors have deepend slightly (not much), the growth has slowed substantially IMO. I have noticed that in the past few weeks that my ALK uptake has slowed substantially as well. I used to dose ~50ml/day of Randy's Two Part, now I am only dosing ~25ml/day and the levels are staying stable. I have had to adjust them down because my alk was raising.

So now I really dont know what the deal is...Obviously since the growth has slowed, the intensity of the T5s is not causing any harm to them, its just bringing out lighter colors in our corals. I am now leaning towards the spectrum of T5 is just "different" than MH and that is the difference. Perhaps the way T5 illuminates the tank makes it appear to have more output than they really do. Anyway, I just got my ROIII reflectors in last night so I will be running halides here soon. I will be sure to return to this thread in the future to update on the progress after the switch.

 

[Jacob D]

Horace - you might also be seeing the effects of the corals adjusting to the change in lighting (referring to the slowed growth). Your old bulb combo is my current one. I'm thinking of switching to:

B+
GE
B+
B+
GE
B+


I think Grim might have talked me into it

 

[dvanacker]

Horace...how long ago did you make the change. Give the corals a month at least to settle into the new change.

I'm not switching to halides anytime soon. Im determined to make this work in my favor and I know its possible. Many people are keeping beatiful colors on SPS corals with T5.

Take a look at this TOTM on advancedaquarist. This guy runs an 80g with only 4 normal driven T5 bulbs and has colorfull SPS everywhere.

you can read more here http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/aquarium

I'm running the same lighting on my 55 gallon and all my sps are pretty much half way and up. Im really starting to believe that maybe we are just blasting our corals with out giving them a chance to acclimate. I know my problems all started when I upgraded to SLR's and giessmann bulbs.

 

[Horace]

Ive adjusted my photoperiod of my daylights down from about 11 hours to about 7 over the past couple months. The growth has definitely slowed and I noticed it almost immediately. I have some corals that you used to see daily growth and now it takes a good week to see any difference. They are still growing and look good though.

I switched to MH just because I like the look of MH better and I know with MH there arent all these questions. I know MH works and is proven to work well. Its just one less factor I have to worry about when I get them set up. Plus IMO shimmer really makes a HUGE difference in an SPS tank that already lacks movement. The shimmer really brings everything to life.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Ok. I have been following you guys for a while now and there are two things I have noticed.( i am about to order a Tek T5 fix like right now, gonna try em out anyways, hope i am not wasting my money) First, is GET A DANG CABLE SUSPENSION SYSTEM AND RAISE THOSE FRICKING LIGHTS after you raise the lights wait a couple of months and see if you notice a difference. Then if you dont switch to the nutrients aspect. You have to control everything when you are making changes otherwise you are going to learn nothing. Also, how often do you guys do water changes. I hope WEEKLY. Do you have refugia. What are your corals eating? There are so many factors being ignored here. Yes tinker with the lights but dont be so fast to attribute it to the lights until you do controlled experimentation with every other factor that could facilitate your problems. I am going to stick with you because I am overskimming a G3 on a 55g and about to order a Tek fix so we will see what happens with mine and what i can notice. Obviously, this is gonna take a couple of months so i hope the thread sticks around.

It is likely a combo of problems. I think what Borneman said is true. You want a very clean tank, but you dont want a sterile tank. What supplements are you using? two part, zeovit, kalk?? what if any? what salt? RO or RO/DI, I mean there are so many factors lets get em down. When i get my lights I'll be able to give some input rather than sit here on the bench and quarterback.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Also, we are so picky that if ours doesn't look like someone else's then something is automatically WRONG when its not WRONG its just DIFFERENT.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Also, you are running SLR's. Switch to the not so billy bad *** reflectors. are you overdriving the bulbs too? If so you are just trying to bleach the corals IMO. I assume your tank is a 55g so it is 20" deep right? U dont need to overdrive these bulbs or go crazy on reflectors and damn sure dont need to do both. We get so caught up in getting the best of the best, we may not be doing ourselves justice.

 

[Jacob D]

snaps -

I hear what you are saying, but some of us who are getting our corals from friends etc... who have similar husbandry techniques but MH lighting begin to see a big difference in color right away (under T5). This is one of the reasons why I have riding the fence on whether I like them or not for over 2 years.

I don't believe it is too much intensity and have not from the get go. If that was the case these gusy running T5 - AND - MH would have some bleached white corals. If you read through the whole thread there are people having success with the bulbs close to the water, and further away as well, and people having problems both ways too.

I tried taking a frag of one colony and moving it down and have not seen much if any difference yet. So again, I'm doubting there is an issue with intensity and that it has everything to do with spectrum. My corals DO have good growth, and I'm not arguing that T5 puts out respectible PAR but I think that there is a separation between the effect of PAR on growth vs. color, where my uneducated opinion is that spectrum comes into play there.

U dont need to overdrive these bulbs or go crazy on reflectors and damn sure dont need to do both. We get so caught up in getting the best of the best, we may not be doing ourselves justice

Not sure where you're getting this info, if anything this thread has proven that NOTHING has been proven about T5's yet, other than there is a lot of varied experience with them. Maybe that statement is just your opinion?

And finally FWIW, I tried getting the folks on this thread to post some of their tank params without much luck, but keep banging on that door and someone will answer

 

[dvanacker]

Good points....I know there are alot of other varibles. But it seems like there are quite a few of us that are experiencing somewhat similar symptoms.

Never thought to take an SLR out or two...hmmm.

My tank is far from sterile. I have been feeding the fish more and I got a few new ones. It was fairly clean before I started this but not sterile. Now Im noticing algae growth and detitrius in the SSB. I think I'm about to get rid of the sand. But anyway lightening corals is kinda the oposite you should have if you have nutrient build-up....which is what my tank has been building up to since I started feeding the fish lots (over a month ago).

I also have to say that lots of people fry there mushrooms and LPS when switching to T5 as well. When I did my green mushrooms that were in the open and not in the shade basically shriveled up and didnt look to healthy. The ones in the shade prospered and looked healthy. Maybe the SPS are kinda doing the same thing.

As for feeding in the past I have never feed the corals anything.....I have since bought some DT oyster eggs and Im gonna give that a go.

And for supplements...basically nothing. kalk and ca reator. Bi-weekly water changes.

I also have to add that I'm not so much overskimming anymore because I've added a 60g frag/sump....which is 50 more gallons then before. However I've retro'd my skimmer to a recirc which is fed by the overflow....very nice system.

 

[dvanacker]

Mothra ...if spectrum is the issue...please explain why people ARE having amazing results with T5.

Really explain that. If it was the wrong spectrum that would make it impossible. Is everyone who has a nice T5 tank a lier?? Are they really running MH but want everyone to believe they are running T5...that doesnt make much sense does it.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

Just for giggles someone should try a low K lamp (3000) in a mix and see what happens.

 

[Jacob D]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7603414#post7603414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dvanacker
Mothra ...if spectrum is the issue...please explain why people ARE having amazing results with T5.

I could just as easily ask you the same thing. If it is a matter of too much intensity then how come people are having amazing results? How come you aren't having amazing results if they are too intense?

How can a light be too intense for someone and not too intense for someone else? How can a light be the right spectrum for someone, and the wrong spectrum for someone else? If any of use could answer these questions this thread wouldn't be 7 pages and growning. It is my opinion, which I stated above.

One possible theory in support of my opinion, is that there are not only several color temps of bulbs, but several manufacturers also. Unless everyone starts listing their exact setup (including brand of bulbs, reflectors, and ballasts) we're all just wandering around without any real basis to start a productive experiment from.

I've seen many MH lit tanks that have far more watts per gallon than I do of T5, am I too believe that my tank is more intense than those too? Afterall most of my frags came from tanks lit by MH. Granted my tank has had it's ups and downs - but who's hasn't? Overall with my husbandry I should have better color than I do - and that is the only statement that I'll make which is a fact.



Oh yeah... I dose kalk and alk via a dosing pump on a constant schedule. Except for a small slip recently my paramters have been rock solid for the last year. I do weekly water changes and my tank temp is between 79-81. My current tank has been running for over 2 years with T5 lighting. It is LPS dominated and they love the T5.

 

[Jacob D]

Grim - Where can I get one of those lamps? I'll give it a shot.



PS - I just switched out my AB for B+

 

[dvanacker]

Im using the same bulbs as the 80g I posted. 2 aquablue 2 blue+. Only my tank is a 55g. That 80g is one of the nicest SPS tanks going. what do you think??
Intensity can very alot from setup to setup but if you are using the same bulbs the spectrum should stay the same.

For example Grim did par tests and showed the TEK reflector to produce 10% less par @ 10" and 20% less par @ 20" then the icecap SLR. These are two of the best we got and there is a 10-20% difference. Now factor in the height at which we mount the bulbs. Weither or not there is a shield. Photoperiod length and clarity of the water.

I'm not saying this is the only possible reason....but maybe one. Maybe we did'nt acclimate our corals properly, maybe our tanks are too young and not biodiverse like alot of the great SPS tanks. Maybe we are nutrient defiecient or have exess nutrients...I dont know.

I think I'm getting good color and growth...do not get that wrong. Like I said on page one my pinks and blues are great......my greens usually go lighter. However on some pieces like my green horn coral that came to me slightly brown and is now flouresent bright green this is good. However on my slimer that is looking kinda yellow this to me is bad.

 

[sneeyatch]

i agree with snaps too - maybe everyone wants to have the best of the best, when the not the best is actually better.

i can't declare that my t5's are a success yet (only 5 months), but the tank has never looked better. good ole' Less than quality" fixture, with no name brand bulbs and growth and color is insane. no overdriving, no slr's.

personally, i think people should stray away from the regular "herd" of people and do things differently. think about it - one person does something, then another duplicates it, and so on. kind of like lemmings - one day you'll fall off the cliff. do something different, maybe you'll live longer (or at least the animals in your tanks might). maybe if you all leave it alone, it might do better on it's own instead of tinkering with this and playing with that. i'd be stressed out and losing color too if my photoperiod was 6 or 7 hours long, and color spectrums were shifted on my all the time...

i try to duplicate the equator - long photoperiods, stable conditions - and leave it alone. so far so good -

good luck...