My tank sucks

[Whiterabbitrage]

I'm depressed, humiliated and humbled. My tank sucks and I don't know why. Two days ago my last RBTA turned a shriveled gray and that was the last straw. I need help. A few corals are growing and seem ok ( Setosa, mini maxi Nems, a zoo colony, and oddly enough a gorgonian and an Acropora) but everything else is shriveled ( zoo colonies, Acans, Litho, Rics.) the tank is an eyesore, I'm not kidding. I tried growing some red macro algae to liven things up, but it died off gradually. Why is nothing growing? Why are my RBTA dying? Why are my shrooms all shrunken?

My last tank was doing great. I was getting cocky. For two years I not only had no problems but was able to keep a Tree Sponge and a Fromia alive and happy. Everything was great. When it came time to move I decided to upgrade everything. Bigger tank! Bigger sump! Bigger skimmer! Better lights! I knew moving the creatures would be tough on them, and I was ready for some losses. I also knew the new tank would have to cycle, so I grew lots of extra bacteria in the old tank sump to put in the new tank to seed it. I waited two months to be sure it was cycled before moving the corals. I figured there would be a settling in process But it's been 4 months now and everything looks worse than when it was put in. Does anyone have any ideas?

Tank 150 gallons
Sump 100 gallons
Lights 2 Radion 30 Pros
Fish: yellow Coris wrasse, 5 Barbical Blennies, YWG, Randalls Goby.
Temp: 78'
Salinity: 51
pH: 8.2
Ammonia/ Nitrite/Nitrate/phos: 0
Calcium: 460
Alk: 9
Mag: 1350
Parameters above have been steady before the corals were added and have been steady since. I particularly watch the Alk.
So why does everything suck? The rocks are white and hideous with no growth of anything, although there is a pink sponge growing on a shell I moved. Do I just need to give it more time?

 

[Reefstarter2]

salinity 51 ? ehem well..... theres the problem lol. No seriously what do you mean by 51 ?

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

Sorry. I use a salinity probe, so it reads conductivity.
So the salinity is 34 and the SG is 1.025

 

[sneeyatch]

Possible heavy metals? Try using a polyfilter, they'll change color depending on the issue. Tough break man, sorry.

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

Thanks for the support. This hobby can drive a person crazy. Adding poly filter now...

 

[Reefstarter2]

My wife thinks I have gone nuts . maybe true but I am happy this way lol

 

[mattgumaer]

What lights are you coming from? What are your tank dimensions? With two Radion Pros, if your new tank is 6 feet long, maybe there is a temptation to turn the lights up too high and/or too fast. I run three Radion Pros (first generation of the pros- second generation for Radions generally) over a 180 and my max intensity is usually in the neighborhood of 50% with the UVs turned down pretty low as well.

Matt

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

Am coming from T5's.
The tank dimensions are 5 feet by 2 feet.
The Radions are mounted 1 1/2 feet above tank. I can't hang anything from the ceiling so had to get the tank mount holders but tank is acrylic so holders are clamped to canopy.
Am thinking this is too far away, but not sure how to jerry rig an alternative.

 

[mattgumaer]

The Radions are going to be way more intense than T5s (particularly if you're not coming from T5s with great reflectors). My Radions are only about 9 or 10 inches above the water so I can't really comment on the effect of hanging them that high but I would suspect that there is much less light loss than you think because the light coming off of these fixtures is so focused. I went to a reef store out in Buffalo New York not too long ago that had several tanks with Radions. They had one in their back grow out area with the Radion mounted 2 or 3 feet above the tank. My recollection is they still didn't have the light turned up too high (something in the range of 50%) and had their UV turned down pretty low. I turned my UV down after seeing their tanks.

You don't mention your intensity. I just turned mine up a little and right now my max intensity is overall 55%; UV 40%, Royal 100%, Blue 100%, White 50%, green 40% and Red 50%. If I understand the way the percentages work in combination, this means overall intensities as follows : UV 40% of 55% or 22% overall, Royal 40% of 100% or 40% overall; Blue 40% of 100% or 40% overall; White 40% of 50% or 20% overall; and green 40% of 40% or 16%. Not saying my settings are perfect but, I think that intensity is in the right ballpark for a maximum. I have a mixed reef with a few softies, LPS and SPS.

I also think there tend to be 'hot spots' of light directly under the Radion light pucks (this may be alleviated by your hanging height). You may want to consider whether the corals that are doing better are not directly under the light pucks.

I really like my Radions, in part because they offer a ton of control. I think this is both a blessing and a curse in the sense that, with all that control, I think it is much easier get off track. I also think it is easy to underestimate their intensity. There was a Radion intensity poll over in the Ecotech forum not too long ago that polled for maximum intensity. The most votes went to less than 50%; the second most went to 50-60%.

You have a pretty light fish load as well. If you don't have significant algae, is it possible you're underfeeding the tank? I know with my freshwater planted tank, higher light without dosing CO2 and ferts in addition to feedings is a recipe for trouble.

I'm relatively new to reefing but I'd consider turning the lights down (and possibly shortening up the photoperiod) depending on your current settings and maybe think about feeding the tank a little more if you have little/no algae and don't need to clean your front glass periodically.

You also don't mention water circulation. Coming from freshwater tanks, I was surprised at how much of a difference circulation can make in a saltwater tank. I'm still trying to find a balance where all my corals are reasonably happy with the flow.

Matt

 

[Waters40]

Sorry, I don't have anything to offer to help, but I just wanted to say that I LOLd when I read your thread title. I think we have all been at one time or another so you are not alone.

 

[d2mini]

As far as light, i wouldn't do less than 4 radions, assuming your tank is a standard 150 which I believe is around 73" long?
Two is nowhere near enough.

 

[Wazzel]

You need more fish and more light. You just moved all you corals over from a tank where food was abundant and light was intense. They are now in a clean tank with a lower bio-load per volume. You corals are hungry.

A 5 ft tank will take a minimum of 3 radions, 4 may be required depending on you lay out, considering they actually cover about 24x18, not 24x24 as advertised. Do not be afraid to turn these things up, but take your time getting them there. I run a hydra52 at 96% of full power and have no issues. I did take several months to get there from half that.

Make your changes slow. Knee jerk changes can be worse than the problem.

 

[reefgeezer]

I feel your pain. You may not have enough nutrients in the system for most. Low nutrients might also explain the lack of coralline growth and could also cause the red macro to die off. These symptoms might be made worse if your lighting is too intense. The gorgonian is the only thing that doesn't make sense. Do you target feed it? If you decide you need higher nutrient levels, increasing the fish load and feeding them well is one way to add nutrients to the system.

 

[mattgumaer]

3 Radions would be nice for a 5 foot tank (although I'm not sure strictly necessary). In my mind, it has much more to do with consistency of lighting/eliminating shadowing than getting sufficient light over the tank. I have 3 radions over a 6 foot tank and might think about adding a fourth if not for cross braces that divide the tank into thirds. However, with 3, lighting appears consistent across the tank.

I can't imagine running Radions at 90+ percent of maximum intensity. I don't know how they compare in terms of intensity to hydra 52s but I'd be careful turning them up. My semi-educated guess is that there are many more people with problems caused by too much light too quick than too little light with Radions.

Matt

 

[Reel North]

I used to run 3 radion g2 over a 72 " x 27" deep 150 g and they were at 90%. Sps suffered. Lps was ok and zoos just got eaten by my angel lol.

T5 to radion means you had full light coverage. Now you have essentially 4 spotlights. Move them down, and add at LEAST 1 if not 2 more. They really cover about 14x14" with decent par.

Personally I would ditch them and got to t5 or Mh. That's what I'm doing in my new build.

 

[kenpau]

You need more fish and more light. You just moved all you corals over from a tank where food was abundant and light was intense. They are now in a clean tank with a lower bio-load per volume. You corals are hungry.

A 5 ft tank will take a minimum of 3 radions, 4 may be required depending on you lay out, considering they actually cover about 24x18, not 24x24 as advertised. Do not be afraid to turn these things up, but take your time getting them there. I run a hydra52 at 96% of full power and have no issues. I did take several months to get there from half that.

Make your changes slow. Knee jerk changes can be worse than the problem.

This is exactly right!

Personally I would ditch them and got to t5 or Mh. That's what I'm doing in my new build.

This is the reason there are so many anti LED threads on Reef Central!!

Don't ditch them, Radions are very good lights, you spent all that money on upgrading them so don't make knee jerk decisions.

As Wazzle said, I think the majority of your problems is not enough nutrients in the system for the corals to feed on.
With regards to lighting, it takes some research but you need to find the right spectrum for your corals, so the settings that match 10k or 14k or whatever colour spectrum you want. But it has to be a spectrum found in nature, not just something made up to look nice in the tank.

Personally....I would do a search for radion settings and the ones people have had success with, also with LEDs, using a quantum meter is essential. Measure your PAR across the tank and THEN make a decision, on your size tank the decision is most likely going to be either adding more Radions or going back to T5 lighting.

 

[reefanatik]

Man its kind of hard to read all these post talking about ditching radions for T5s.... personally i like my radion pro G3. When i swapped from a tek t5 6 bulb to radions i started seeing better growth from my sps. The color suffered at first but i had my intensity up to about 80%. Now im at arount 60% and coral color looks great and growth is good imo. But thats just my opinion and my experience.

 

[Wazzel]

Man its kind of hard to read all these post talking about ditching radions for T5s.... personally i like my radion pro G3. When i swapped from a tek t5 6 bulb to radions i started seeing better growth from my sps. The color suffered at first but i had my intensity up to about 80%. Now im at arount 60% and coral color looks great and growth is good imo. But thats just my opinion and my experience.

Use what works for you and do not worry about others. Now that you corals have adjusted you could probably raise the intensity if you wanted to. I initially started at 50% on my hydra52.

 

[kenpau]

Man its kind of hard to read all these post talking about ditching radions for T5s.... personally i like my radion pro G3. When i swapped from a tek t5 6 bulb to radions i started seeing better growth from my sps. The color suffered at first but i had my intensity up to about 80%. Now im at arount 60% and coral color looks great and growth is good imo. But thats just my opinion and my experience.

Unfortunately there is a trend on here of people who tried and failed with LEDs trying to convince others who are having problems to do the same instead of looking for solutions.

 

[reefanatik]

Unfortunately there is a trend on here of people who tried and failed with LEDs trying to convince others who are having problems to do the same instead of looking for solutions.

Thats fine. If they weren't happy and swaped well im glad they finally got their tank how they want. As for me I'm very happy with my set up and that's all that matters in the end. .... well my wife also since our checking is tired together and she noticed all big transactions. Lol