my thoughts on phosphates

ryeguyy84

New member
Can someone please confirm my thoughts on the phosphate levels in my tank?

I have some GHA that I assume is due to my phosphate level. I was using a salfert kit and showing 0 but I purchased a hanna checker and it reads .11 then after a water change .06 then another water change .02.

a day after all these water changes (done over a week) my phosphate level is .06 again. my theory is as the Hair algae does it's releasing phosphates into the water. to counter that I should change my gfo maybe every 2 to 3 days to stop the increase? maybe followed by a small 5% water change?

any ideas?
 
I may be wrong but if the GHA were to release phosphate it would have to die and deteriorate.

I would look at what and how much you are feeding. And if the GHA is on the rocks look at the possibility of the rock leaching.
 
I think low phosophate food is kind of a misnomer... ALL food has phosphate in it, as part of the celluar structure of life. The backbone of DNA is made up of sugar-phosphate.

So over feeding is over feeding, and even low phosphate food can raise phosphates significantly if it isn't eaten, and waste isn't removed/skimmed/etc.
 
It is true all foods have phosphate, but some do have significantly more phosphate than others. :)

Necessary Nutrition, Foods and Supplements, A Preliminary Investigation
http://web.archive.org/web/20010720071031/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/data/foods.asp

Excess phosphate eaten by fish is simply excreted. Which foods you choose to use can have a big impact on the amount of phosphate introduced into your system, especially when maintaining levels below 30 ppb. ;)
 
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Rock and sand binds a lot of phosphate, so a 100% water change will not appear to be 100% effective as phosphate comes back off the rock and sand. Using GFO for a while can deplete that reservoir. :)

And yes, foods are the main source of P in nearly every aquarium. :)
 
I also wouldn't let the hair algae die and rot in the tank. I would try to manually remove as much of the algae as I could. Every little bit helps.
 
can rocks leach phosphates for over a year? and yes over the last week the GHA is turning less and less green. it also comes off easier than before, but my rocks have all kinds of annoying groves in them that I cant pull the algae out of.

I thought of the food but I really don't feed that much, I have 2 clowns and a 6 line wrass in a 29G biocube. I alternate between NFS pellets one day and a 1/4 cube of mixed frozen the next. would the elos food be better? I've heard good things.

I tested my ro/di water and got 0 phosphates. Then I tested my mixed saltwater and found a .01 reading. I assume it's a reading error but I ran out of reagent so I can't retest until tomorrow when the mail comes.

What else can add phosphates?
 
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See this is the type of rock, it's stuck in the groves.
 
Phosphate will stay bound to the rocks until you lower the concentration around the rocks low enough that you strip it off. So it can be there forever if you never remove it.

If you run GFO aggressively and drive down the concentration in the water for a while, you will strip it off.
 
Phosphate will stay bound to the rocks until you lower the concentration around the rocks low enough that you strip it off. So it can be there forever if you never remove it.

If you run GFO aggressively and drive down the concentration in the water for a while, you will strip it off.

ahh ok osmosis... I didn't want to do it but it looks like i'm going to have to break out my phosban reactor from my old tank.

does anyone know where I can find these "U" style barbed fittings? the black ones with the clear tubing attached.
 

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+1 to this. The only dry food I feed is Elos sV

Why would Elos' dry food be "low" in PO4? What does "High quality and functional packaging which allows us to reduce the need for preservatives used by other brands that will indirectly add phosphates to your aquarium." actually mean? (The quote is from their web page.)
 
Means they don't add extra phosphate from preservatives. It doesn't mean that there isn't phosphate in the food. It would be very poor food indeed if there weren't. It also doesn't mean that their food doesn't add phosphate to the tank. You have to read it very carefully. The subject for the verb phrase "will indirectly add phosphates" is "preservatives used by other brands" There is nothing there that says explicitly or implicitly that their food doesn't add phosphate to your system. All food does. The only claim they are making is that other brands contain phosphate from preservatives.
 
Why would Elos' dry food be "low" in PO4? What does "High quality and functional packaging which allows us to reduce the need for preservatives used by other brands that will indirectly add phosphates to your aquarium." actually mean? (The quote is from their web page.)

Why is Rod's frozen better than Ocean Nutrition or SF Bay? Basically the same reason, there's no added phosphates in the form of preservatives or binders.

I can't speak for the "high quality" packaging. It does come in a heavy foil pouch and a tin can with a screw on lid.

I can vouch for the need to feed less and improved water quality and that's all I care about.

Copied from ElosUSA:
Fish Nutrition

Elos SV fish foods are the finest fish foods in the world, used by top breeders in Europe and now available in North America. The SV range of foods is designed and produced without compromise. Elos was the first to add Beta-Glucans, proven to stimulate macrophages, specialized cells within the body of fish that check and control the pathogenic agents development. For top breeders this has provided a food that enhances a fishes' ability to fight off bacterial, viral and parasitic infections. Elos SV foods utilizes a post extrusion system that allows us to dramatically increase the Bio-availability of our food by infusing each pellet with extra vitamins and proteins that are normally wasted in a standard pellet/flake into the aquarium filter instead of the fish.

When you first see an Elos fish food, you will immediately realize it is different because of the package size and material. Each Elos SV fish food is packed in an aluminum can, with a sealed bag and measuring scoop inside along with detailed instructions. The standard size is 50 grams, which most think is very small until they begin to use Elos SV. Because of the very high conversion rate due in large part to the low temperature extrusion, the post extrusion process and high quality raw materials, we can feed our fish much smaller portions and see noticeable improvements in both the fish health and water quality. The packaging is also made of a tight fitting aluminum container, which preserves the Elos SV food much better than standard plastic containers. In most all other fish foods it is typical to use inorganic phosphates as a preservative and this is NOT used in the Elos SV foods. While these inorganic phosphates may do a good job of preserving their food, they also add unwanted phosphates into our aquariums, something that most aquarium owners try hard to avoid. Try Elos SV foods and see the difference.
 
Why is Rod's frozen better than Ocean Nutrition or SF Bay? Basically the same reason, there's no added phosphates in the form of preservatives or binders.

........ In most all other fish foods it is typical to use inorganic phosphates as a preservative and this is NOT used in the Elos SV foods. While these inorganic phosphates may do a good job of preserving their food, they also add unwanted phosphates into our aquariums, something that most aquarium owners try hard to avoid. Try Elos SV foods and see the difference.

Is the only evidence that Ocean Nutrition uses inorganic phosphate in it that a competitor makes a general statement that "most" other companies do so? If so, your statement is seemingly very strong for something with zero evidence to support it.

Even if it is true, it is not clear how much might be added by any company relative to what is naturally there in the normal ingredients.

FWIW, aquarium supply companies claim all kinds of things that are not true.
 
Is the only evidence that Ocean Nutrition uses inorganic phosphate in it that a competitor makes a general statement that "most" other companies do so? If so, your statement is seemingly very strong for something with zero evidence to support it.

Even if it is true, it is not clear how much might be added by any company relative to what is naturally there in the normal ingredients.

FWIW, aquarium supply companies claim all kinds of things that are not true.

Of course not. LOL If they did most would go bust. One simply needs to read the label on any pack of food to find out what's in it. Most tell you what's used as a preservative and give the % of phosphorus per package in the guaranteed analysis. Isn't it true that most give an analysis of ingredients on the label? But you for sure know that as do most others I hope.
Maybe I should have used Omega One or Instant Ocean or Aqueon at least they include phosphorus in the guaranteed analysis printed on the package.

Besides that I never claimed Elos was the perfect food to begin with. I just stated I prefer to feed it.
 
Of course not. LOL If they did most would go bust. One simply needs to read the label on any pack of food to find out what's in it. Most tell you what's used as a preservative and give the % of phosphorus per package in the guaranteed analysis. Isn't it true that most give an analysis of ingredients on the label? But you for sure know that as do most others I hope.
Maybe I should have used Omega One or Instant Ocean or Aqueon at least they include phosphorus in the guaranteed analysis printed on the package.

Well, I just read the label of my Ocean Nutrition frozen Prime Reef and it listed the ingredients and listed no specific phosphate compounds. Further, a percent phosphorus does not imply any phosphate is added to the food because all foods contain a lot of phosphte in the form of the biomolecules present in the natural ingredients. DNA, RNA, phospholipids, and many proteins contain phosphorus as part of the chemical structure. Rods food and Elos food will both have a large amount of phosphorus in it for these reasons. :)
 
so we should all run gfo! I go through a lot of that crap. Feeding up my clowns to hopefully get them into breeding condition really stresses 49g of water! I go through a cup of gfo every 3-4 weeks.
 
There are many good ways to export phosphorus, and GFO is one, yes. I use it along with organic carbon dosing, growing macroalgae, and skimming. :)
 
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