My yearly reef crisis is in full swing...

[wenwillwego]

Last year it was a 3 day power outage in Michigan March, this year I seem to have upset things with a freshwater dip...

Background-
I have a 5g up until recently invert only reef, just short of two years old. Soft corals and LPS, the size of which most of you with yer big fancy tanks would call frags. 9w Skylight LED, .5g HOB fuge with chaeto on a reverse photo period from the tank, carbon in the back.
For Christmas my lovely boyfriend got me a gift card for the LFS, with which I acquired a YWG/candy cane pistol shrimp pair. I haven't seen either since the first day but hear the shrimp clicking.
A month or two before the addition of the fish and shrimp I noticed one of my colonies of zoa's was not as open as it had been in the past, but all of my water parameters checked out so I didn't think much of it. About Christmas time my other colony of zoa's also started to close up... again everything else was perfectly happy, so I started to think I might have something akin to "zoa pox."

The Problem
After several weeks of thought and the zoas not getting any better, on Valentines' day I did a brief (30 seconds max)freshwater dip of both zoa colonies with RO/DI water of the same temp and PH of the tank water. Nothing obvious fell off so I put the colonies back in the tank and went on my V-day outing. Upon return 4hrs later, all hell had broken loose. My hammer head, acan, favia, mushrooms and rics were all shriveled down, spitting out their guts, expelling zooxanthellae, ect. The hammer head was by far the worst, looking like he was melting and sliming all over.
I moved the hammerhead to a hospital tank last night, since he looked like he was melting away which seemed to be exacerbating the other corals' problems. Today he looks much better, I wouldn't call his tentacles inflated but they aren't sucked all the way down into his skeleton, no more sliming and melting appearance, he isn't expelling zooxanthellae either, but he is nowhere near his former glory. The favia, acan and other mushrooms are still looking really bad, the favia and acan have been sliming in the tank too. The zoas are still closed and slimy too.
ETA- after testing the water last night I did do a 2g water change, which is about the normal weekly change. Don't freak out, half your total water volume is standard in pico's.



Happening now, and what I need help with
So I only have the means to have one fully functional hospital tank, which is where the hammerhead is now. What I'm interested is getting some input from more experienced reefers-what would you do in this situation? I'm wondering if I should move the other stony corals to the hospital tank to see if they recover as it looks like the hammer head has slightly since being moved in there, but then again three stony corals in a 1g hospital tank might upset eachother more than that's worth... Or should I put the hammer head back in the tank and remove the two zoa colonies to the hospital tank, since it seems they were the source of the problem? Or should I just leave everyone alone and hope for the best? Guhhhhhh



Since I know you want to know, as tested yesterday when I came home to the problem-
Temp- 78-80
Salt- 1.026
No2, NO3, PO4- 0
PH- 8.2-8.3
CA- 460 (I realize some think this is too high, but this is what it's been at for the last two years and is what I get just with coralpro and no amendments)


So as you might be imagining at this point my Valentine's day wasn't the romantic, relaxing evening I was hoping for.... (there should be a smilie that starts as a laugh and ends in tears)

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

What's your alk measuring? A freshwater dip wouldn't cause what you are seeing. Something must be out of whack.

 

[criticalencore]

Is it possible some chemical was in the bucket you did the dip in or had something non your hands like say soap. In a tank so small it dont take much to make stuff go bad fast. Notice any new algae like diatoms or anything in the tank since the decline has started?

 

[Reef Frog]

You didn't mention:

How is the flow? Is it dependent on the refuting only?

What is your water change routine? Do you'run carbon ever?

Do you feed the tank? Could the goby have died? I imagine he should be easy to find in a small tank.

Are you confident in the accuracy of the ammonia & nitrate levels and salinity? Salinity is tough to maintain in a small tank without an ATO and instability in this area can cause a myriad of problems.

I'm thinking a possibility to consider is a slow organic material build up is occurring and organic metabolite compounds have formed, stressing the residents. Answers to the above questions could help point you towards or away from this idea. If you think this is a possibility, increased water changes in frequency and/or volume (don't overdo it) and perhaps a bag of carbon in the HOB could remove these undetectable contaminants with little risk of making things worse. Good luck.

 

[Bilk]

Wow sorry to hear about the issues you're having with the tank. It is always upsetting because we put so much care and effort into them.

I have to say, I've done a few FWDs with zoas to rid them of nudibranchs and never had an issue arise from doing so. I think you need to do to usual emergency water change and carbon if you haven't already and look at your equipment. Heater being a prime suspect for bad things. Then powerbeads and on down the line. The FWD didn't cause this and I think that's the general opinion. So don't feel like you made an error. It's more than likely an unfortunate coincidence and there's something else going on.

For better or worse, our little bits of the ocean are balanced on a razors edge because they're a relatively small volume of water compared to what can cause havoc in the system. That goes for a 5g nano to a 500g system too. Hope things start to look up there!

 

[wenwillwego]

Thank you everyone for the responses! I'll answer questions to the best of my ability.

Sugar Magnolia- I do not have a test for alk. The salt I use says it mixes at 4.3 meq/l and I do a 2-3g (half total volume) water change each week... Also would I have seen a change in PH or Calcium if the Alkalinity was out of whack? I read that at some point your calcium would change if your alk did, so never having the problem before and having the calcium test I never purchased the alk one...
With your suggestion though I did read up on alkalinity levels and one thread said very low alk can cause rapid tissue necrosis in hard corals. :/ But again my mushrooms and xenia are also unhappy...

criticalencore- It was the same bucket I use during water changes, which I only rinse with ro/di water between uses... I'm pretty careful about my hands before they go in the tank so I doubt that. Also, no new algea or diatoms.

ReefFrog- There are two powerheads in the tank, one for the fuge and one for flow. I believe the one just for flow cycles something like 60gph.
I change 2-3g a week (half total volume), there is always carbon running in the fuge.
The tank is fed phytofeast everyday, as well as weekly spot feeding some of the corals with brine shrimp. Every other day I've been putting a tiny bit of frozen brine shrimp in for the goby... it did occur to me he may have died, but my tank has consumed much larger dead snails than him to no ill effect. I mean he is like an inch long maybe... I haven't went looking for him because of that, and because I would of course have to rip apart the tank.
I am confident in my tests. The first few months I was coming up zero with the NO3&PO4 I took a sample in to the LFS and they confirmed my numbers. As far as maintaining salinity, I top off by hand twice a day. Worth mentioning here, I also don't have an ammonia test. I was using those little dip strips when I started, when it was time to invest in better/ individual tests my tank was 6mo old...




All that said, I think I'll be making the 1.5hr round trip to the LFS tonight to have them test ammonia and alkalinity.
Thank you again everyone for your input!

 

[wenwillwego]

Bilk- I just checked the heater and it appears to be intact and working. What should I be looking for on the powerheads?

 

[Reef Frog]

It sounds like you are doing everything right and run a good tank. So I don't think my previous ideas apply here. Hmmmm.

I can't see pests being the cause here but who knows. Your flow seems fine. Yes, radical temperature swings can cause serios swings but that doesn't seem to be happening. Stray voltage is a small possibility. It's strange after a long period of stability.

I am not saying your light is inadequate, but my first thought on reading your post that the light seemed modest for keeping any stony coral, but have no real SW LED experience. I hope you can sort it out.

 

[Bilk]

Bilk- I just checked the heater and it appears to be intact and working. What should I be looking for on the powerheads?

Well with electrical equipment, including the heater, you want to check for stray voltage. In addition, with the heater, you want to check that it's functioning properly, cycling on and off when it should and not causing the tank to overheat.

Situations like this are so unnerving because there's no clear reason like you witnessed something falling into the tank. You have to go back and retrace your steps to see if there was something you did at the time, that didn't appear to be an issue. Did you need to move the lights over the tank to remove the colonies and did they go back in the same place? Not claiming this could be the reason, but just using it as an example of where you need to investigate. Heck, not knowing where you are, so it might not apply, but was there a window open and blowing on the tank, cooling it beyond what the heater could maintain? Things like that, where they can't be tested for, can cause something like this to happen. The use of household cleaners are often the culprit or someone using some kind of aerosol that could have gotten into the tank.

I know it's a helpless feeling. Just keep at it and at least do the water change and hopefully what ever the cause is, will be handled by that.

 

[mayjong]

My first thought was amonia . In such a small tank it is possible the fw dip could have killed enough pods and stuff to spike a bit of amonia. Just a thought

 

[wenwillwego]

Thanks everyone again for their input! It is sometimes just nice to know other people are thinking about your problem and have been there too. Reefing is a joy and a privilege (as cliche as that sounds!), but man is it stressful at times like these! So many little lives in my hands!

Reef Frog- wattage works differently in led lights, a 9w led is much more of a light than a 9w metal halide or florescent would be. Having had florescents in the past I would say this light is the intensity of a 30-35w florescent.

Otherwise, update from the lfs is as follows-
Ammonia-0
Alk-8.6 dkh
Copper (because I'm a metalsmith and they had the test)-0

The consensus there is chemical warfare from upset zoas in the tiny tank. Though I realize that isn't what is thought here, they know my tank and practices better, and have been a full service saltwater store for 30+yrs.
I've changed the carbon (again) and two more gallons of water, and switched the hospital tank to having just the two zoa colonies and moved the hammerhead back to the tank. My plan right now is to continue as needed with the water and carbon changes, and my brother will be out next week to help me check for stray voltage.

 

[wenwillwego]

I guess the other update should be the actual condition of my tank/corals. No change tonight, those who were happy still are, and those who were not happy still are not. Fingers crossed for the morning!

 

[lrs183]

Chemical warfare, while a possibility, I would think would be unlikely if you were already running carbon. Unless the carbon was shot and very, very old. Tanks are very weird and our smaller tanks make it that much more awkward to make every little critter in it happy. During a water change it may not hurt to investigate under some of the live rock what the situation is with the goby and pistol shrimp. Though there are obvious risks in doing this so it is up to you.

If it happened in a matter of hours I would be more suspect of there having been something in the water dip. I'm not sure of how potent the chemical warfare solutions are that come from corals but I wouldn't think they'd be killing the entire tank in a matter of hours - particularly with carbon having already been running in the tank. I did a small injection of hydrogen peroxide into some bubble algae in my tank and my corals didn't like that one bit. And that was an extremely small amount that I used (less than 1ML). Perhaps something as simple as that made it into the tank? If everything bounced back I wouldn't be too in shock over the situation or go trying to initiate too many changes.

 

[wenwillwego]

Irs183- with a reading of 0 on ammonia, no2, no3 and po4, it is definitely not worth it to me to go digging around for a tiny shrimp and fish. I appreciate your concern for my problem, but as I said in my initial post I am looking for the opinions of more experienced reefers than myself. While I hope I have not offended you, it is a peeve of mine on forums like this one for people to repeat things they have read with nothing other than the proof of it being on this forum concerning it's accuracy.

 

[wenwillwego]

Ive actually just reread my posts here and I realize there is something I haven't made clear. Not all of the corals in the tank are doing poorly. There is one ric, a cabbage coral, a Kenya tree and a toadstool who are perfectly happy, for whatever that is worth!

 

[lrs183]

Irs183- with a reading of 0 on ammonia, no2, no3 and po4, it is definitely not worth it to me to go digging around for a tiny shrimp and fish. I appreciate your concern for my problem, but as I said in my initial post I am looking for the opinions of more experienced reefers than myself. While I hope I have not offended you, it is a peeve of mine on forums like this one for people to repeat things they have read with nothing other than the proof of it being on this forum concerning it's accuracy.

No offense taken, but you'll come to find (or I'd bet money on it) that many vets haven't experienced every issue they've read about. I'm sure you understand the point being made.

But, good luck.

 

[Bilk]

Speaking of chemical warfare and your description of events in the op prior to this occurring, were you wearing perfume in preparation of going out for your Valentine's date? That can be some potent stuff. Perfume may not only make a man melt at the smell of it :worried:

 

[wenwillwego]

Speaking of chemical warfare and your description of events in the op prior to this occurring, were you wearing perfume in preparation of going out for your Valentine's date? That can be some potent stuff. Perfume may not only make a man melt at the smell of it :worried:

Haha! Nah, I'm an all-natural kind of gal and the man likes it that way.

The zoas continue to occupy the hospital tank and continue to do poorly, though they've stopped sliming. The tank itself is thankfully on the mend, it actually looks like I'm not going to loose anything which is shocking to me for how bad everything looked friday night. Tomorrow I'll be turning my zoa's over to the much more capable hands of the LFS, since of course this whole thing started with them being unhappy in my tank when everything was going fine, so I'm sure not putting them back in when things are shaky.

 

[Bilk]

Haha! Nah, I'm an all-natural kind of gal and the man likes it that way.

The zoas continue to occupy the hospital tank and continue to do poorly, though they've stopped sliming. The tank itself is thankfully on the mend, it actually looks like I'm not going to loose anything which is shocking to me for how bad everything looked friday night. Tomorrow I'll be turning my zoa's over to the much more capable hands of the LFS, since of course this whole thing started with them being unhappy in my tank when everything was going fine, so I'm sure not putting them back in when things are shaky.

Well natural is good

Glad to see things are looking up a bit!

 

[dkeller_nc]

You mentioned that you performed a FWD with RODI at the "same pH and temp" of the tank. How did you go about adjusting the pH of the RODI to match the tank's pH (i.e., what did you add - RODI has pretty much zero buffering capacity )?