Mysterious Angel-anyone ID?

[mjsfish]

Did anyone see this on WWM:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs3.htm

About 1/2 way down, there's a Chaetodontoplus angel, but can't tell what kind.

Lousy picture, but cool looking fish.

 

[skibum9884]

It's a Maze Angel, or Orange-Face. If you search on RC you'll see there's some debate as to whether it's a hybrid, or what.

Either way, they're relatively uncommon, very pricey when they show up, and rumored to be even more attractive than in pictures.

 

[euod]

Chaetodontopolus melanosoma has a complete yellow tail as a juvenile so that is a cadidate as well.

 

[mjsfish]

I don't think so.

It's too black. No hint of grey, and yet has mature facial markings.

Definitely not a maze, IMO.

I was hoping maybe Copps could chime in, or another angel pro.

 

[copps]

This is an as yet undescribed fish found in the Philippines and Taiwan that shows similarities to the three closely related species of the "melanosoma" complex Chaetodontoplus dimidiatus, C. melanosoma and C. vanderloosi. It is not that uncommon from the Philippines in the trade... until it's looked at more it's Chaetodontoplus cf. melanosoma. I do not believe this fish to be of hybrid origin, but rather I believe this to be one of the input species to the "mazes" and "orangefaces" we see trickling in...

Copps

 

[Gogandantess]

There's a picture of an angel in the drfosters&smith mail catalog with a face of an angel mainly orange that looks amazing.(Not on the cover but inside) If anyone knows what I'm talking about, tell us what it is?!

 

[copps]

On page 5 with the Eheims?

 

[Gogandantess]

^ Hey Copps It's on the top left corner on page 96. Is that what a mature Maze supposed to look like or a totally different Angel? Simply amazing creature.

 

[copps]

That facial shot appears to be a full blueline angel Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis.

 

[Gogandantess]

Oh ok, I'm not too familiar with seeing such bright orange on them. The mature ones are the real orange ones I assume.

 

[ccampbell57]

The picture is of a lower grade maze angels. I think it is stunning and reminds me of one that came in last year that was completely black except for the orange face...

SO SICK!!!

 

[Gogandantess]

^ Wow LOWER Grade Maze?! How does the Higher Grade ones look then?!! lol

ccampbell...are you talking about the OP's pic or the one I'm referring to?

 

[ccampbell57]

I am referring to the OPs picture. The high grade mazes are much different and have a ton of coloration...ill post some picture of the different grades.

 

[The Reef Expert]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AngelsPIX/Chaetodontoplus/mystery+angel.JPG


Thread on Orange Face Angelfish if your interested. The Orange Face is sort of recognized. Chaetodontoplus cephalareticulatus.

 

[ccampbell57]

Here are the 3 grades that I saw come in last year...I like all three and the Grade C sold immediately...

Grade C

Grade B

Grade A Supermale - this one was 7-8" and saw it in real life and it was SPECTACULAR!!!

 

[29reef]

Drool.... Chris those are sweet!

Thereefexpert- you might want to not conterdict the resident angel expert John C (copps) on the fact that the fish in question is labeled as a different fish in your post than his. You may come off as not knowing very much. Maybe I'm missing something; but your using a different name. Just my .02. Just looking out for missinformation. no harm meant.

 

[copps]

Okay, let me go into a bit more depth on this fish...

Back in 2007 I had dinner with Dr. Gerald Allen here in DC as he was on his way from Europe back home to Australia. Gerry is one of the go to guys in the Chaetodontoplus world of ichthyology, and had recently finished writing the paper at that time on the most recently described angelfish Chaetodontoplus vanderloosi. I showed him photos of a fish that had been entering the trade from the Philippines that some were calling C. vanderloosi based on color comparison alone. I knew C. vanderloosi was not only found in a small 10 x 10 mile area, but all the way in Eastern Papua New Guinea, far away from the Philippines. The fish shared characteristics of the "melanosoma" complex species C. melanosoma, C. dimidiatus, and C. vanderloosi, although it did not match any exactly and was from outside of the range of most. Gerry knew this fish from the Philippines I showed photos of but had not looked in depth at it... he was traveling back to the Philippines the following year I think and would collect specimens. I shot him an e-mail today to follow up. Below is a photo of one of those Philippines fish...

Below is a better shot of the one asked about in this thread collected in Taiwan... photograph is credit to Michael Stern. So, if this is a low grade maze then there are bunch of low grade mazes swimming in the Philippines!

These two fish are identical. The fish is not uncommon in the northern Philippines... it is very uncommon in Taiwan. I believe these fish may be waifs from the Philippines that have settled in Taiwan. There they have bred into the septentrionalis (blueline) population to form "maze" angels. The hybrids are fertile and breed back in, forming the spectacular array of hybrid "mazes" like the ones Chris showed. Basically the more "cf. melanosoma" it is the lower grade the industry gives it, like the "grade C" Chris showed that has little blueline and alot of this. I won't mention the input of perhaps a third species that further complicates things!

Copps

 

[ccampbell57]

Ahh yes John - the illusive Chaetodontoplus caeruleopunctatus ...seems that the South Pacific is full of sexually charged Chaetodontoplus WHHOOOOO!

 

[copps]

Yes Chris... thanks to the apparent promiscuity of the Chaetodontoplus genus there are an amazing array of unique specimens!

I have some very cool Chaetodontoplus coming to me next week!

Copps

 

[ccampbell57]

Yes Chris... thanks to the apparent promiscuity of the Chaetodontoplus genus there are an amazing array of unique specimens!

I have some very cool Chaetodontoplus coming to me next week!

Copps

I can't wait to see them John...remember if you run out of room I have a lot of extra :thumbsup: