Mysterious Death in QT

[Amazon4]

I have a small YWG, rabbitfish (doliatus), and a Bartlett's Anthia in QT undergoing hypo treatment.

They are approaching three weeks in hypo. They were removed from the DT when ich broke out. The DT is fallow.

All had been going great. This morning, the anthia is dead. There was a red spot on it's forehead. I bagged it and put it in the fridge to get a good look at it tonight when I get home.

What do you think the chances are that the red spot is a puncture wound? I wonder if it got started during the night and ran in to the rabbit fish - would that be fatal? The fish appeared perfectly healthy last night. I was shocked to see it dead this morning.

Since these fish are in QT for ich I don't know if I have something else going on that requires treatment, or if it was a freak accident. Anything else I can look fo as the culprit?

Any advice is appreciated - thanks

 

[paulamrein]

One could only speculate, but I imagine you'll get a better idea tonight with the "autopsy".

 

[Amazon4]

Yah, I'm hoping that with a magnifier or an eye loop that I'll be able to see if it's a puncture wound.

I also notices the gills looked a little pink (but not hemmoraged). But the Bartlett's is such a pale yellow, it may just be that I can see through more easily.

 

[jnc914]

Not all fish handle QT and/or hyp and can die from it unexpectantly, especially anthias. Hope the rest pull through for you. When you say Hypo, are we talking an actual 1.009 salinity? Also how long did it take you to lower the specific gravity. If done too quickly the fish get very stressed.

 

[tmz]

Could be a puncture.

It may also be flukes .
I am assuming no ammonia in qt although the redness at the gills leads to the question..
Going down in sg can be done relatively quickly . I do it over two days so as to give nitrifying bacteria a chance to adjust. Since the fish has an internal salinity of 1.008 or so going down to 1.009 actually makes it easier for the fish to osmoregualte and is not thought to be stressfull. The fish simply stops drinking and does less work to stay hydrated.It is important to establish the hypertonic barrier in hypossalinity before the parasites in the fish leave,multiply and reinfest.
Personally, I use a formalin bath in tank water before placement in qt. Fish tolerate it very well and it is effective against flukes ,broklynella and few other things that may be lurking and not treatable with hyposalinity.
For ich treatment my personal preference is copper .
For fish suspected of being copper sensitive and for those such as sharks and rays who can't osmoregulate well in hypo the tank transfer method should work.

 

[Amazon4]

I did not bring it down to 1.009. It is at 1.012. Ammonia was zero. But there were nitrates. (surprised with daily water changes) Did a 25% water change to be safe.

I have prazipro. Can that be treated while in hypo?

Then again, the others are fine. I don't like treating if not necessary.

I looked at the anthia closely and could not tell if it was a hemmorage or a puncture. If they have flukes, does it happen that quickly?

Oh, and to answer one question - it took 5 days to get it from 1.026 to 1.012. I understand it could have been done faster, but it was my first time lowering SG and I was being cautious.

 

[tmz]

I think prazi pro can be used in hypo. This link carries a good discussion on flukes and prazi pro.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1260067&highlight=

Hemoraging often occurs with flukes as well. When they leave the fish,they leave open wounds behind.

 

[gary faulkner]

I had a pearlscale butterfly that attacked a rabbitfish and was dead the next day.

HTH

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12652814#post12652814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gary faulkner
I had a pearlscale butterfly that attacked a rabbitfish and was dead the next day.

HTH

I figured swomething like that could happen but never heard a first hand account before.Thanks

 

[Amazon4]

I guess it can happen. There was just no way to tell for certain.

I have dosed with Prazi Pro.

The hypo ends on 6/7. The tank will be ready for fishies the end of June.

If I see a spot of ich in that tank after this I'll scream

 

[EllieSuz]

I don't believe 1.012 is low enough for true hypo. You may just transport ich back to your display if your spec grav is that high.

 

[gary faulkner]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12653443#post12653443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EllieSuz
I don't believe 1.012 is low enough for true hypo. You may just transport ich back to your display if your spec grav is that high.

I agree, needs to be 1.009 to be effective.

 

[Amazon4]

OK, well I've gotten mixed signals on the SG for hypo.

If I drop it to 1.009 I presume I'm starting the clock over? Which leads me to ask about the long term effects of hypo on the fish. Is it detrimental to have the fish below normal SG for more than the recommended time?

Thanks for the input!

 

[gary faulkner]

Yep, clock starts over. Sorry you received wrong info on hypo. Best wishes for your fish.

 

[paulamrein]

I don't see a reason why there would be huge effects on leaving them in hypo for another 6 to 8 weeks. I've had to do it just the last time when I had one fish in hypo for almost the entire time and my wife surprised me with a new fish, she's aware of acclimation and all that, so she put the long nose butterfly in with the fish a few days from coming into the tank. (I was in the middle of raise SG) I guess that's why God made wives so cute so, two fish stayed in another 8 weeks and I am 2 weeks left to go. I guess no harm done. And I refuse to believe there is any real adverse effects for doing it. Not forever, just another quarantine period.

 

[tmz]

I don't think too much is known about long term effects of prolonged exposure. The kidneys are certainly being underworked . You will also have to be slow in bringing up the sg over at least a week.
In my two experiences with hypo when the sg went above 1.020, the ich reappeared. Some chaulk it up to hypo resistant strains. I went back to copper treatment and for some fish tank transfer. I suspect the 1.009 level is chosen because any lower and you'll be under the fish's internal salinity of about 1.008 and while the fish can osmoregulate for salinity higher than it's own by drinking more ,it can't adjust to salinities lower than it's own. Be careful with your salinity measurements and don't go under 1.009. Less it's said is ineffective. Clearly ,you need a well calibrated refractometer to walk the line.

 

[paulamrein]

tmz,
You've mentioned tank transfer quite a few times, I am very intrigued with that method but know nothing about it. Could you shoot an article or even better give us a play by play instructions, success, and downfalls of the method. It's a tough subject to research as most search engines go by word and I get all kinds of goofy stuff that has nothing to do with it/.

 

[tmz]

Simple and elegant method a bit labor intensive. Use two or more qt tanks(don't worry about cycling since you can use seeded media or rely on an ammonia detoxifier and waterchanges). Move the fish every 3 days to a cleaned tank( dry it off after draining and rinsing)with new water.4 transfers or sometimes less does it.It's even better if you can time the transfer to when the ich leaves the fish ie when the spots show.
The ich goes into the water fom the fish and heads fo the bottom where it encysts and is left bheind. The four changes cover life cycle times and should get them all when they are out of the fish.