mysterious fish killer

[AggieC]

hi guys

First, the animals:
Passer Angel (now deceased)
Volitans Lion (Timothy) 10" nose to tip of tail
Orange spine unicornfish
sohal tang
hippo tang
lobster (7")
large red crab
1 croceus clam
mushrooms and polyps

Water: perfect x nitrates = 40 ppm

Dilemma. Two days ago, Passer Angel, who who was named "terrorist", starts hiding and not eating. No outward signs of illness or apparent signs of being harrased (besides he was the terrorist). After few days, he looked dead. Took him out to qt. He looked better, ate, and then started acting like he was possessed by the devil. Twisting and gyrating, swimming all around. A few hours later, dead like stone.

Last night: All well.

This morning!! unicornfish on last breath, looks velvety and qtd! Hippo tang-ichy, Timothy is shedding (I heard that is normal for lions?). So far Sohal okay. Sohal is newest addition along with lobster.

Hellllllp!

P.S. what do I treat tank with that won't hurt clam?

 

[AggieC]

lfs said raise temp to 84 degrees, lower salinity to 1.017 water change. I have vortex diatom filter. He said run vortex 24/7.

 

[jeffbrig]

Warm water might raise metabolic rates, but also reduces the water's oxygen capacity. Lowering salinity to 1.017 won't do much of anything (I do hope this is for QT, not the main tank?). Hyposalinity is quite a bit lower (1.009-1.010), only combats ich, and requires you to keep the salinity there for 4+ weeks.

It sounds like you have a major source of stress affecting the fish, which is helping to cause to these outbreaks. You can treat the fish as you identify their diseases, but you need to identify and remove the larger cause. Is the tank overcrowded, is someone bullying the others, or there some toxic substance in the water, etc.

 

[AggieC]

The only thing I can think of is that the skimmer has not been working and the UV was running through it. The trickle filter is working fine though with a carbon filter. I have plenty of circulation. Could the lobster be doing something? He's new. The hippo tang was aggressive but he's one of the sick ones.

tank is 85 gallons. plenty of room for these fishies.

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

How long have you had these fish? This is a lot of fish that will grow LARGE, I hope this is a BIG tank.
I would remove the fish to a qt tank [or two] and start treating with Cupramine..Hippo Tangs are 'ich magnets' so you can bet 98.8% of these fish WILL have ich and it can take two weeks too show up. I normally treat ich with Hypo but it sounds as if your fish might have Velvet [they may have both] Copper will cure both

You need to move them ASAP! Velvet kills quickly
Please qt all new arrivals in the future

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Oh....just read your last post again....an 85 in NOT big enough for these fish long term. for the fish you have right now, you would need a 300+ tank . Sohals get well over 1' and VERY MEAN [did you research? I have read stories of them killing off their tankmates] A Hippo will also grow to 1' ..The Lion? also over 1" in length and will eat any fish that will fit in its mouth..The Passer would have gotten well over 1' also....You have to consider the ADULT size of the fish you buy, not the size they are when you buy them...Research, research, research!!

I haven't heard of a Unicornfish, so no comment there

 

[Angela Short]

A unicorn is also a type of tang I belive. The hippos are not ussually aggressive but he is probably just trying to survive esspecially if the one fish was named "terrorist". A UV will "help" controll disease to a extent, not a good enouph one to rely on it keeping my fish healthy IMO. I would say the stress of overcrowding and fish not getting along made the problem worse. Fish can sometimes fight off things thereself but not if they are stressed from non- ideal conditions.

Now, your problem The skimmer and UV off line did not "cause" a disease, it had to be introduced. Now to figure out what it is... If its velvet, they may not even be alive by the time you read this, fast moving parasite once it gets established in large numbers. They will have a powdery look on the fish and heavy breathing, lethargic, pale color, not eating... Ick is easy enouph to diagnose. Brook could be a issue as the slouphing of skin and other fish can have it besides clownfish. Either way Butterfly gave the best advise, copper with seachems cupermine is the best and only chance for the fish to cover both Ick and velvet bases. If its brook it will have to be treated with formalin but since the lion is the only one having skin trouble copper is the best choice right now. In a QT of at least 29 gallons or more if you can get it. It will be uncycled so you will have to do daily water changes to keep ammonia down unless you have some form of biofilter to add already seeded.
I would not raise temp or lower salinity to do copper. Lower salinity makes copper more toxic, you could lower it to the 1.019-20 ish range to help relive stress on fish but no lower. You should also add a airstone to the QT as the oxgen will get depleated fast with so many fish in a small tank.

If you loose the fish just take it as a lesson learned and get a qt up for new guys. Either way the display needs to be fishless for 4-6 weeks to let whatever was in there die off. Hope they don't all die on you..

 

[AggieC]

thanks for all help so far.

Unfortunately, as Angela said, Unicorn and Hippo are dead. Here's what I believe happened. Sohal looked good at lfs. I did not qt. When I put in my tank it looked like it had ich but I thought it picked up debris from tank because of nonworking skimmer (duh) cause it disappeared later. All was fine for a while till passer became sick.

I do have a cycled qt tank that I can put copper into but it is a 20g. It will fit the sohal (symptom free for now) which is still small, maybe 4". I have heard that lions are extremely hardy and resistent to ich. Can I treat the tank with other, live sand/rock-safe treatments, do major water change and run the diatom filter keeping the lion in the tank?

Butterfly, u are right, I will do more research. I wanted big fish not realizing that my tank was really not that big.

 

[Angela Short]

All fish need to be out and treated to kick it for good. Ick or any other will hide in the gill area undetected to reinfest later when stress happens. Even in resistant fish. Good luck getting everyone better!