Mysterious recession

[Lunchbucket]

alright guys needing some help w/ this one. i've been reading up on AEFW's and thought i might have a case of them. so i took one of my receeding corals out (two receeding are tri color type corals). i searched it over w/ no signs of AEFW's. yeah i know they hide well that is why i looked for the notorious bite marks and eggs. no eggs and no bite marks from what i could tell. but it has been receeding very very slowly for a couple months.

some of my thoughts that could be the cause?
- prodibio
- my fairly aggressive use of po4 remover to help w/ bryopsis
- using AZNO3 to help w/ the bryopsis

using those products to help get rid of bryopsis. want to limit the fuel for bryopsis. i've also cut feedings and been doing water changes every other week.

anyhow here are the pics. any help?

it doesn't look like AEFW's from what i can tell but i'm at a loss. i do have some fluke tabs on teh way to do a dip on that coral and see if i have AEFW's.

thanks everyone
Lunchbucket

 

[Lunchbucket]

the greenish blotchy stuff in pic #3 are not eggs. there is no difference in texture on the skeleton and i even scraped it and nothing comes off.

Lunchbucket

 

[Bebo77]

yeah ill bet its flat worms...

 

[wrassie86]

I wonder if the green bloches are from phos wicking.To me it looks like some thing might be eating it.but the green areas might suggest the other.
have you tried a iodine dip? if i see one of mine aling thats what i do.I've never seen anything come off the few times ive done it.but it's been the cure.

 

[Lunchbucket]

bebo - what makes you think its the dreaded AEFW's?

wrassie - phos wicking? guess i need to do some research on that. have not tried an iodine dip. guess i should get some iodine at a medical supply store? what dose for a dip?

remember i have the fluke tabs coming and i plan on doing a dip when i get them. i just didn't think it looks like the pics that everyone else is showing so i'd ask

keep the suggesionts coming
Lunchbucket

 

[wife no likey]

Speaking from personal experience, I would say that is a nutrient issue.

 

[King-Kong]

Nutrient issue on a 58gal cube with a skimmer that big? That's rough.

How long have you been running the nitrate/phosphate removers?

 

[Stoney Mahony]

I don't think it looks like AEFW's, and with that much damage, you would definately see some eggs somewhere on that colony. My first guess would be flow but after reading your tank description, I dont think you have a problem . Gotta be nutrients then, just gotta be. Good luck bro, I would try an urchin or two for the bryopsis, less po4 remover and maybe smaller, once a week wc's.

 

[cwegescheide]

Hey Lunch,

I've got EXACTLY the same issue with a few of my sps. I don't think its AEFW. I've checked mine as well. I thought I might have an issue with phosphates so I bought the expensive Merk PO4 test kit and the result was 0. I have a 90 gallon with 2 Tunze's, a 6100 and 6200 on a 7095. I really don't think its a flow issue especially when most of my corals are fairly small. I've never seen any critters eating tissue off my corals that were effected. Like yourself my 2 affected corals receeded over the course of about 6 weeks I'd say.

I've heard about the phosphate removers being an issue affecting corals but I have not pulled it yet. I use about a cup, maybe a little more in my 90 ran passively in my sump filter sock. I would say I feed fairly heavy sometimes more than 2x/day. 95% of my corals are fine and actually look very healthy. I have a EuroReef 6-2 skimmer that I run wet and like yourself I do about 15% waterchange with TM every 2 weeks.

I guess I should also say that I think the recession has stoped now and the base where it was affected is now a brownish green color.

Sorry I don't know what the issue is but I thought I would pass my issue with what sounds like the exact same thing in my tank.

Oh and I know I don't have RB's since I treated the heck out of my tank several months before this episode and have not added anything to the tank since.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[wrassie86]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8134482#post8134482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lunchbucket
bebo - what makes you think its the dreaded AEFW's?

wrassie - phos wicking? guess i need to do some research on that. have not tried an iodine dip. guess i should get some iodine at a medical supply store? what dose for a dip?

remember i have the fluke tabs coming and i plan on doing a dip when i get them. i just didn't think it looks like the pics that everyone else is showing so i'd ask

keep the suggesionts coming
Lunchbucket

phos wicking is pretty much when the corals are absorbing phosphate from the rocks they are mounted to.it turns there bone green and slowly kills them."bomber" used to talk abit about it.should not be to hard to search for.
For Iodine i like to use kents.Eric B has a thread that lists what he suggest for doses for red bug removal.I forget the exact dose I go by the color of the water now.if i can find the artical/post i'll post it.

 

[Lunchbucket]

penniilessreefer - what experience did you have??? low nutrients you just up the bioload to fix it?

king-kong - yeah i guess i do have a beefy skimmer on that tank been running po4 removers since 2 yrs ago when my whole system crashed due to po4 being over 2.0ppm. i think it was in a certain salt that was rumored to have po4 problems at that time.

Stoney - well i guess that sort of eases my pain that you, a very experienced person, doesn't think it is AEFW's...but we never can tell i guess. i thought i'd see some eggs w/ all that damage too...thought it was strange. there isn't a flow problem anywhere in my tank got that covered pretty good. nutrients huh...hmm. i did only feed everyother day there for a month or two to see if i could snuff out the bryopsis. now i feed everyday to my 5 fish (2 clowns, bangaii, royal gramma, 6-line wrasse) all small and not big poopers. think i should skip the water change this weekend?? i do them every other week about 10-15gal at time. it was 15gal but lately (last two months) only been doing 10gal.

i didn't think any urchins would eat bryopsis...well some say they do some say they don't

cwegescheide - same issue huh. got any pics?? i've tested my po4 on a Hanna Colormeter and a Hauk (sp?) colorimeter from two of my buddies 60miles away and when i did it was 0.0ppm and 0.01ppm. then tested a month or two later and it was about the same. this was in Feb of this year or so. haven't tested for a longtime. guess i have been feeding less since then and i lost one of my big fish a yellow eye kole tang so i might have lower nutrients now then i did then.

i just changed the po4 media (4 Tbsp of Phosban and 4 Tbsp of Rowaphos in a 2littlefishies fluidized reactor) this last weekend as it had been quite a long time (8wks or more) since the last change.

there was a big thread quite a while ago on nutrient poor tanks and light color. my buddy Travis saw my tank earlier this year (Jan or so) and thought i had quite low nutrients and had some light colors. here is the thread i think i'll have to revisit that thread.

i did just have a Yellow Tang in there. he died in 2wks due to catching a NASTY bacterial infection that would have been a good pooper for me.

so should i dry out the skimmate, do less water changes, stop the AZNO3, add a fish or two, feed a little more?

i want to keep the fish and corals healthy but limit the bryopsis growth.

any advise would be great.
thanks everyone!
Lunchbucket

 

[Lunchbucket]

oh i don't have RB's as i treated the tank and treat all incomming frags. don't think i mentioned this

Lunchbucket

 

[Mchava]

not a nutrient issue and not a AEFW issue, its what wrassie said, your coral are taking in the phosphates that are leaching out of your rocks. That is why your acro's skeletons look green from where its receading. By looking at some of the photos it looks like the corals are still in the original plugs that they came on. I've had a lot of issues when I left them on there. Now I remove mine from the plugs i've notice some of them have metal in them and have rusted.

 

[wife no likey]

I had several wild colonies start basal TN with the greenish tint showing in the skeleton. It turned out that I had definately neglected cleaning out the sump.

I use a 75g stock tank, and there was a bunch of garbage settled on the bottom of it. I still tested undectable po4 via a Hach PO-24 total phosphate test however.
After doing mad vacuuming in the sump and several water changes, the TN has stopped and things are growing again.

Although I still have a couple patches of bryopsis (no other types of nuisance algae) that are lingering things are looking much better.

 

[Frankysreef]

stop using those products and figure out why you have so much algae. Check your alk also. High alk causes stn

 

[cwegescheide]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8138876#post8138876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Frankysreef
stop using those products and figure out why you have so much algae. Check your alk also. High alk causes stn

I personally have went thru periods of high alk but not for quite a while. Recently my alk was about 2.2meq/L OUCH!! Several of my corals faded quite a bit. I was sick about it!! I fixed the problem and got my reactor cranking a little more output so i should be cool now. My STN episode actually appeared on about 2 or 3 corals at about the same time. All but 1 made a 100% recovery. I'm hoping in time the "scar tissue" will heal over.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

Lunchbucket, how is your alkalinity? Has it been stable?

 

[Lunchbucket]

Mchava - not nutrients and not AEFW's...its PO4 leaching?? that coral is not mounted on a plug it came one. it was a fresh cut frag and was mounted on rock rubble. it has been there for 1yr plus and just showed signs the last couple months. the bas has some greenish on it..not too much IMO. still think it is po4 wicking??

pennielessreefer - might isn't because i neglected the sump i clean it out every other week. i don't have much detritus in there when i do clean it out. did you use the Mech for total PO??? i tested w/ the Deltec kit and got 0 back in Jan or Feb.

Frankysreef - algae grows IMO. i don't over feed and keep my system clean. bryopsis is the spawn of satan and will grow almost no matter what. that is why

my alk hasn't been high. usually tests at 9-10dKH. i did have some problems 3yrs ago when i ran 12-14dKH so i know what you guys are saying

the last week i have had my reactor act up and slow so i do have low alk 7.5dKH or so but this has only been the last week. what is the cause before this? i'm getting the rx cranking back up and hope to have the alk back to a stable 9-10dKH.

anymore good thoughts?
Lunchbucket

 

[Mchava]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140381#post8140381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lunchbucket
Mchava - not nutrients and not AEFW's...its PO4 leaching?? that coral is not mounted on a plug it came one. it was a fresh cut frag and was mounted on rock rubble. it has been there for 1yr plus and just showed signs the last couple months. the bas has some greenish on it..not too much IMO. still think it is po4 wicking??

I still have a feeling its p04 leaching. Most take a while to start to happen but it will eventualy. I lost a realy nice Hoek about 4 months back. Had the same thing happen it slowly started on the base and went onto the rest. In about 2.5 months it was all gone. That is when I saw the tread from bomers on p04 leaching. See if you can find the threat he post on that. I was a while ago.

 

[cward]

The tissue looks like it has receded fairly fast because the skeleton should have a tint of algae or even coralline algae growing on it if the recession was slow.