Near total failure, but not ready to give up yet!

[wowser]

I have been going down a steady path of destruction and am tired of killing my reef inhabitants and flushing $ down the drain. I've gotten so much advice and don't know where to go from here but will not do another thing until I get my Nitrates to 0. I have a feeling that's the main problem.

Can any reef experts help me?
:fun5:

Here's my story. Three months ago I bought a used BC14 off craigslist that was missing an actinic. The tank was well established it seemed. Lots of coraline everywhere, but had a bad algae bloom. Had LR, LS, 4 hermits, 2 turbos, 1 small clownfish, a few sad frags. When I discovered the missing lamp I decided to just buy a new BC8 and transfer most of it over (the reason I got the 8 was it fit under the counter in my kitchen, where the 14 did not). Did water changes, cleaned rocks with toothbrush, added Purigen and then Chempure Elite. Tank was looking pretty good. Started stocking tank: leather coral, cleaner shrimp, torch coral, a few zoas, a purple nudibranch (learned the hard way on that), and a nice hammer (over a few weeks). The tank was humming along for about two months. I fed brine shrimp every other day; about a pinky nail chip, rinsed and dropped in with net. Put some cheato in CH2 with a sub light.

Had a few days were tank got to 82-83 degrees. Otherwise all seemed fine. Then my torch retracted and then the hammer. Zoas were closing and I lost the turbo snails in a week. The torch finally died and I did a lot of water changes. Was told to vac the sand (which I now know was a mistake). Constant Nitrates of 20-30. Lots of detritus and every time I did something in the tank, I stirred up a dust storm. Lost the shrimp, then a small frogspawn. Did 2 gallon water changes every other day for a week. Then more. Then more. Feed just 5-6 tiny pellets every other day now. Nothing waisted. Nitrates now are at 10 (or 5, is it me or does 5 and 10 look exact on the API card?). One LFS said my temps were too high. Said I should be at 78 and never 80. He was sure that was the problem.

Glass is clean. Sand is clean. Back chamber relatively clean. Water is crystal clear until I mess with things. Wondering if my rocks have the bacteria needed to filter? What if previous owner never did a proper cycle?

Here's what's in the tank now:
1 large star polyp; not happy
2 small bunches of zoas; not happy
1 frogspawn head; not happy
a few pollyps; not happy
3 small leathers; very happy
1 med acan; very happy
1 med clove bunch; very happy

1 small clownfish (tough guy, had since day 1)
1 small firefish (hardly comes out of his bolthole, may not make it since he doesn't come out to feed)
4 red claw hermits (had since day 1)
2 cerths
3 tiny snails (forget name, about the size of a large pea)

Filtration: Filter floss on egg crate; chaeto with sub light. Took out Purigen (recharging it now) and chemipure elite. They just seemed to trap a lot of detritus and didn't seem to help. Upgraded 606 pump and Nano Korilla power head.

Testing: API Reef Master an Salt Water test kits. Refractometer (tested with RO), Digital thermo tested at LFS for accuracy.

Water: RO from drinking RO system in our house. Tests fine.

I am trying to do the right things. I read everything I can online. I have learned to NOT trust the LFS. Mostly bad advice from the 5 I've been to. But I am DETERMINED to make this thing thrive. I keep seeing BEAUTIFUL BC8s fully stocked with 2-3 fish, tons of corals on Youtube. One guy even has the stock filtration and lights and has a magnificent established tank. Yet others say I have too much stuff, etc. How can these guys do it? I will do whatever it takes as long as everything lives! i understand smaller tanks = harder. I ordered LEDs for a hood upgrade. I wish I could get a bigger tank but there's no room where I want the tank. Otherwise I'd go topless, do the refuge tank, etc.

I know I am rambling. If you've read this far, thanks for looking. Here are my current parameters. If anyone sees anything wrong, please let me know. I don't want to lose any more corals.

NIT 0
NITRATE 10
AMONIA 0
Phos .10
PH 7.8
Kh 9
CAL 520++

SAL 10.25
TEMP 78-80

 

[muttley000]

Welcome to RC! My first guess is chemical warfare between the corals given the small volume. I would search out each one you have and make some choices on what can get along in your tank. Your CA is too high and you need to get your PH up a tad. As you said very difficult with the small volume but doable. Good luck!

 

[airwaybill]

Welcome to RC!!

The combination of low ph and phosphate, plus a slightly low alk, could be the root of your problems. I would also try to get the ph and alk up. Calcium being that high, I would question the test kit and maybe get another opinion. If you are using the api calcium test they are not very acurate. In a tank that small, large amounts of Dissolved organics can cause a lot of headaches. Try to remove what is collecting on the surface of rocks and sand. Also rinse out the filter daily to remove any it collects. What salt are you using and what is the tds of your RO water? Most drinking water systems do not have a DI cartridge. You may be getting some heavy metals and silicates in the water.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Find a lfs that you can trust so you can get could advice. See if they have good testing equipment and have your tests double checked.

Hope I helped.

 

[twiggyb]

Temps are fine at 78-80. I don't like to go any higher then that but I hear 85 is too high, so that's ok. +1 on what muttley000 is saying. Seems pretty small for a torch and a frogspawn to be in together. Inverts probably went from the sand bed being disturbed and the sudden spike of nitrates IMO, maybe also the same with the corals as to why they're not happy.

 

[Johnnys]

Raise ph to 8.0-8.3 by either buffer or water change(I recommend daily one gallon water change because it's such a small tank and it's really not hard).Maybe I missed it, what salt are you using? Use phosguard to get rid of phos. Fix the purigen and with the chemipure that should help with any chemical warfare.

 

[wowser]

How do I raise the Ph? I read that your ph should be in check naturally and using buffers is a losing game trying to chase the correct ph. Is this correct? I will do another 2 gal water change today and put the regenerated Purigen back in. Going to hold off on the Chempure Elite. I put a new bag in 2 weeks ago and it seems so dirty. I know if you rub it black stuff should come out (sounds gross, huh?) but I didn't see improvement with it. Right now it's in a tupperware with some RO water.

One of my problems is I am obsessed with the tank. I keep messing with it and think I ****ed off a lot of corals. But when things started going downhill, I hadn't done that.

Re frogspawn and hammer in an 8 gal bc. Everything I've attempted I've seen on youtube in established tanks.

 

[Johnnys]

Like said you can raise ph by buffer or changing water. There's no such thing as naturally, everything has some kind of artificial in it's setup, if you can accept that than buffer is not a problem.

 

[wowser]

k, I'll try buffer. I assume I have get that from the LFS? Or is there some home recipe? Also, am using Sea Pure salt.

 

[phenom5]

I don't see anything that really jumps out as being a big time problem.

Phosphate is high, and hobby grade test kits aren't accurate down to the level we need them. If phosphates are showing up, then they're too high.

Ca is high, but not to the point that it would cause these kinds of problems IMO.

Nitrates of 10 is not a problem. Without going ULNS (Ultra Low Nutrient System), you'll be hard pressed to get them lower, and I don't think there's really any need to.

pH isn't really low, and pH will read differently at different times in the day. When did you test the pH, and were the light on or off? I would investigate the pH more before you start chasing around a specific parameter.

One thing that comes to mind is that you calibrated your refractometer with RO water. I'd get some 35ppt calibration solution.

Temp is not the issue.

 

[wowser]

The Phos will probably go down with the recharged Purigen. Will test again tomorrow. I keep reading over and over that LPS corals are more sensitive to Nitrates. That's what started dying first. I think I left the corals in too long hoping to see if they'll recover. I knew it was bad when I pulled one out and it smelled like dead fish. That can't be good.

I took the refractometer to the LFS and it tested accurate. I calibrate it with RO every few times. It never changes from 0.

My Ph has always been on the low side. I've never added buffer.

My new approach is: get parameters PERFECT. Restock slowly. Stop putting hand in tank. Underfeed. Weekly 1 gal water changes. Test water every few days.

 

[twiggyb]

All my lps did fine in 20-30 nitrates, but sps can't handle it at all except monti caps IMO.