Need a little help PLEASE!!!

[WinkeyWoneye]

I knew this was coming eventually, but now that it has what shall I do??? My new tank is starting to cycle. Today is day 8 for the tank. My ammonia reading is 1.0 with 0 nitrites. Besides a large water change to dilute the ammonia, what else can I do? Should I use ammo-lock or just let things go naturally?? Nothing seems to be affected by it thus far. All corals are out, fish are swimming around fine. The only loss so far was my red mithrax I found dead this morning. I think he may have been Ill from the start though as he wasnt acting the same during the last week my old tank was up, and no its not a molt. His guts are still inside the shell. PLEASE HELP!!! Any advise is much appreciated.

 

[WinkeyWoneye]

Well talk about a heart stopper! I retested the ammonia, as it didnt make any sense nothing showed signs of distress. My second test says 0ppm for ammonia. After test 2 I was really scratchin my head all confused. So Krazy K suggested to do a third and take the best of 3 haha. Well I did, test 3 also yeilded no ammonia readings. Something must have contaminated the first test I did this am. False alarm for now... but any suggestions on what to do if and when this problem really does arise would be much appreciated... I dont know if anyone else has any experience using Ammo-lock2 or not but if so please let me know. I had used it once in my old tank a while back and nothing seemed to be bothered by it, but that was when it was a FOWLR. I dunno if that stuff will affect corals. I like to try and keep my tank 100% natural and not use any chemicals to fix problems, but would like others opinions on the matter. Tests have concluded that my Red Mithrax is still a goner though :mad2: hahaha *sigh poor thing! I think he may have gotten caught in a rock slide when I was setting the LR up in the new tank, his belly was kinda ripped up.

 

[jallard]

maybe try some turbo start....Eddies has it. Basically bacteria in a bottle. I have used it in the past.

 

[Ken668]

Not sure how much time there was between the first and second test, but it is possible that you tested positive for ammonia, as it does drop off quickly once the tank starts to really cycle. So it might have dropped below testable levels between tests.

Try testing for nitrites too. They are just as toxic as ammonia is. I've seen a graph before about the ammonia cycle, but can't recall where it was. Essentially, the ammonia will spike, then start to drop sharply. As the ammonia is dropping, the Nitrites will start to spike. Then the nitrites will start to drop (little slower pace than the ammonia) and the nitrates will slowly start going up.

When cycling a tank, it's best to take a couple measurements a day of Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Accurately recording this information will give you a nice image to refer to. Then there won't be any question as to if you're through the cycle or not.

I'm not certain of your situation, but it's not recommended to put livestock into a cycling tank. Some say a chromis to start the cycle, others say a cocktail shrimp or two. But you can really stress out organisms by putting them through the cycle.

 

[Pug]

The graph that Ken668 made mention can be found in a couple of books that I have and what he said about the Ammonia peaking then a dropping off and giving way to Nitrite is absolutely true.

Here is the break down:

Ammonia peaks around day 8-12 then drops off
Nitrites will start to be noticed on day 8 increasing to it's peak around days 24-28 and will nose dive after that.
Once the Nitrites have taperd you be able to add the inverts and less tolerant fishes. This is when the nitrate concentrations will start to be present.

 

[WinkeyWoneye]

nitrites were at 0 i tested for them twice this morning, came out same both times. pH is 8.2 sal 1.024 nitrates are still a bit high from my old overstocked tank... on the day of transfer my nitrates tested 15 ppm in my old tank before i stirred or moved anything!! once everything was transferred to the new tank and it was running, tests on that showed my nitrates down to around 10 ppm. this morning my nitrates tested around 5-10 ppm, although still high they are coming down with the new tank. Nitrates I'm not too worried about as my old tank had wicked high nitrates even with weekly water changes. All my stuff is used to that haha. Its the nitrites/ammonia that concerns me, but both are testing 0 now. that first test got comtaminated somehow. The time between first and second test was mere minutes. ...As long as it took me to post and regather my thoughts. I'm in good shape for now, would still like the hear suggestions on what to do IF a ammonia spike does in fact occur.
Thanks for everything guys/gals your the best!
Dan

edit: I have a copy of the graph in my test kit. Thanks though. I know how that all works. I'm just asking for suggestions on what to do if I really do find ammonia at some point soon. Use ammo-lock to detoxify it ? Leave it be and just dillute with many water changes?

 

[Rainer Feyer]

Hi Winkey,

Diddo to everything mentioned so far.

As to adding any chemical to stop another chemical - I would advise against: In essence, the initial chemical is still in the tank, with change in molecular structure.

I actually test very infrequently for any NH products - simply, my tank lets me know if something is off, especially since I am ot rich enough to buy REALLY good test kits (the ones using spectrometry etc).

When I have algae, i know I have Ammonia byproducts, it's that simple for me.

AS for the actual treatment: Nothing better than what was mentioned by Keith: dilution is the solution (water change - phrase stolen from Honorable King Calfo)

Glad you are breathing easier again.

On a side note: I have been reading about adding more food to healthy tanks and have done so for the past few months: No change in NH2 or NH3 - the only change are healthy inhabitants. Of course, I do 10% water change minimum weekly and do use ozonizers (did I say I believe in ozonizers),

happy reefing

 

[Dave ESPI]

Oh, this is disasterous !

You should quit now. Throw all the rock out your back door and the corals in the garbage.

* be sure to label the garbage bag " CORALS ARE IN HERE"

 

[Krazy]

So how'd you make out?

You get your water-change done ???




I did all 3 of my tanks w/c's tonight, talk about working after work...

anyways if you didnt get up to linda's for water, I can swap the aquatainers with ya tommorw evening...
(refilling them before bed)

 

[xian]

Anyone else ever read that Nitrite is not toxic to marine fish? I'm fairly sure that it is not as toxic as it is in fresh water.

Winky, its not unusual for a tank to go through a mini cycle. In fact your mithrax dying may not be the result but the cause. Because your tank is obviously healthy your biological filter took care of the spike quickly.

provided you didn't take Daves advice, in that case I'd advise you to put everything back in the water

 

[WinkeyWoneye]

Dave,
It's done, they are all bagged up and out by the trash. I marked the bag with "Corals" for you. Just a reminder though, your tonga branch was one of them! :lol:

I was considering Dave's advice! lol j/k
I'm ok so far. I was kinda thinking along the lines of xian. I did pull the crab out right before getting water for the tests, I suppose it could be possible the crab temporarily contaminated the water once I yanked it. I dunno, either way I test 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, pH 8.2, nitrates somewhere between 5-10 ppm now, and I still havent done the water change, will be doing one tomorrow though.
Thanks for everything,
Dan

BTW.. I didnt think the crab died from the ammonia spike, the crab was acting wierd 2 weeks before I moved the tank and he disappeared the week previous to the swap. I hadnt seen him until I turned up a rock when tearing the old tank down. Than while putting him in the new tank and putting rock in at the same time, I caused a rock slide that may have caught him undernieth. Either that or he was having a bad molt and me swapping the tank and disturbing him is what did it. Not the ammonia. His belly flap was lifted up almost like it was going to molt...none of his guts were torn up though...all in tact so it wasnt another critter that got him. I'm not worried about the crab, they are cheap enough. I just got scared and jumped the gun a bit with my first post...it was early AM I just got up and tested water to see ammonia, which I didnt expect. I kinda panic'd and wasnt sure what to do for a bit.