Need advice fairly quickly... brook, formilin, fresh dip etc

[TOURKID]

Hi all. Hectic day so far. This morning my female maroon had somthing on her eye ball. wasent sure if it was a scratch or what.

She knocked it off with her anemone...

I left a for a few hours and came back. Between the females eyes and on her lip/chin area it looked discolored, almost a whitish haze. I started looking at the juvi maroon and now he had somthing on his eyeball, and he is clamping one of his side fins.

Also looked like somthing was on the very outter tip of his other side fin. I dont want to imply that its ick, it did look like it SORT OF.

I introduced the juvi after 4 weeks of quarentine, and its been in the tank about two weeks.

*********************************
ok. I litterally ran to the store. Got formilin, an extra bucket, a bigger net, ph up and 2 more airstones.

They are swimming in the formilin bath right now for 50 minutes. only have about 20 minutes left. Im TRYING to get a fresh water bath ready for ten minutes but im having trouble.

I bought aquarium pham. ph up. 1 packet =20 gallons
! packet is 3 teaspoons. I broke it down for 2 gallons of water...
about 1/4 teaspoon.

I added the 1/4 teaspoon and tested it. Its a much brighter purple than my reef tank is... I added another gallon, color dident change (I ASSUME this is reading it at about 8.5 or more)

I pulled out the ol mardel test strips. It says freshwater on the bottle. It says its way to low.

I pulled out an old milwakii ph meter (calibrated it) and it read 8.8. I added another gal. of water and it said 8.6

Is this low enough? Should I scratch the freshwater dip due to inacurate ph readings?
Could be ick, but in my heart I just dont think so. I think I would have saw ick in my QT way before now. and its never been introduced to my reef.....

My anemone just spit out its food too I think it got stressed when I touched it with the net a few times.

ANYWAY.
I HAVE 20 MINUTES to decide. Id really appreciate some advice.
And.. not so quickly, but any thoughts on what disease im dealing with would b great too...

Tia
Lovin you,

maggie

 

[dantodd]

try one more small RO addition, pull some of the freshwater out if you have no more room. Try to get it down to the same as the reef. I assume you are using tankwater for the formalin?

Do you have a QT setup for them?

 

[dantodd]

P.S. Take good care of FeeBee.....

I know how much she means to you.

 

[TOURKID]

Dann.. we have been thru alot together already

Yes im using tank water in the formilin dip.
I just ran to the store and had them test it. im at 8.4... good enough i think (?)

now the qt question.. yep. I have one up and running. never shut it down after I got the juvi... crap. formilin is over.

Ok.. better run. brb.

Do you think I should qt them? what did u do? Theres no other fish and i treated them both.

big one...
Im leaving wednesday for bonnaroo (festival) and Ill be gone 7 days. I think the qt may become unstable with my incompetent fish/dog sitter. so... you think its nessassary? or can I watch for brook to come back? should it come back? hows your fish btw>
*ack*
Ill research some more after I switch em. really nervous about the fresh dip

 

[dantodd]

lost my pink skunks to brook over 36 hour period. Everyone else is fine.

In your case, I'd put them back in the tank after a second dip on Wednesday.

When you get back re-treat and leave the tank empty of all fish for 2 months.

Maybe Scott will chime in but I believe that is his recommendation for brook.

edit: let your dog/fish sitter know they are sick so they don't blame themselves if the fish die while you're gone.

 

[TOURKID]

eek. he already knows.... I def. should have put them in qt.....
but i dident.....
feebee looks absolutly terrible... she of course ran to the bta. tenicles are/were sticking to her face.
lil guy was using his fin agian.. but it still looks like somthings on it. Lights are out... man I already wish i would have got them in qt. *idiot* and I actually HAVE one....

I am / was under the impression that brook wasent somthing that stuck around in the tank.... I cant believe this crap. In the 7 months Ive had a tank I havent gotton thru 1 week where nothings gone wrong. sure... its usually my fault.. but I think i was starting to feel like.. 'hey.. i can do this' and then i get hit agian

gonna be hard to tell whats going on with all the anemone stings tomorrow. I so wish i could cancel this trip
but its the 'big one' i make almost my whole years rent here.. i cant back out. thinking of a way to hook up a streaming video or picture sequenses i can have sent to a phone or somthing... I need to join columbus's reef assosiation and meet some people around here..

 

[Sk8r]

Oh, me. Have you got a friend you can trust to help out?

Be careful dipping clowns and releasing them to their anemones: they don't know they've lost their protective slime coat.

Crossing my fingers for you.

 

[TOURKID]

no.. i dont know anyone with a saltwater tank.. and my fish sitter is the only one that can get past my dogs

yeah.. they dident know they were going to get stung.. i mean.. they dident belly flop in, they did a light touch first. but that dident stop feebee..... shes done this b4.. it would just be nice to be able to tell whats going on with her and not have the stings there

I was more worried about the sitter being able to keep the qt stable...

so if i was to do another dip.. am i supposed to skip a day? I can do another dip before i leave and get them in qt then... then theyd hafta stay in there at least ten days.... i would just worry about ammonia and salinity mostly...

Im looking thru all the brook articles i had saved and none say how many dips to do. nothing about qting and nothing about it 'living' in the tank... anyone have any good websites/articles?

 

[dantodd]

Going by Scott's (Traveller7) experience and recommendations.

 

[traveller7]

The sloughing off of white stuff and the fin action sure seem to be Brook by description. IMHO: skip the FW dip. Hit them with another formalin bath late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning. 20% waterchange to main tank today.

Monitor the pH in the formalin bath, but I have not needed to use pH adjuster when I have used enough aeration and 8.4 pH tank water.

If I were going out of town, without an experienced fish sitter, there were not other fish in the tank, I would leave them in the least stressful and most stable area: the main tank.

IME (other's experiences differ):

If there are no other fish in the tank with the clowns, there is little benefit in moving them to "QT" unless the QT is going to be treated 24x7. I have had little success treating a hospital tank 24x7 and curing brook.

There are others on the RC with more Brook treatment experience and I hope they drop in before you leave, but the above is what I would do based on the information posted.

 

[TOURKID]

thats very reasurring to hear traveler

I read thru every book i had lastnight and webpages and couldent find anything about it 'being' in the tank like ick or whatnot.
They are the only two fish in the tank.

lets see...

I did do a 15% water change in the main (10% being the water i had to take out for the bath)
I dident change the ph in the formilin bath, but i did a 5 min fresh dip afterwards

They seem realy good this morning. the main light hasent kicked on yet so i cant do a close inspection, but lil guy is using the fin that was clamped and the female is spitting rocks at me as usual.

they slept in the bta.. slime coat built up over the night i guess

So i plan to catch them very early wednesday do another dip. and let them have the day to build up the slime coat agian so by the time night comes they can rest peacefully.

thanks for replying. i also couldent find anything about brook being a fin issue or causeing them to clamp. was worried about bacteria and fungus.

oh lights on. Im gonna go stare at them. update in a bit

 

[traveller7]

Glad to hear they are still with us and looking better.

Brook feeds on something or comes in from somewhere, either a low level infection or a new coral, live food, etc.

FW dip should not hurt for short periods, but make sure the pH is adjusted.

I normally see the clowns dead before the fins slough and clamp, but Maroons seem pretty tough with respect to Brook, and hang on long enough for it to progress. My GSM pair acquired WC in 2002 were so bad I almost gave up on them(all fins, dorsal, head, covered in junk): they recovered and went to breed and have been a perfect pair for years.

Best of luck and may they be there waiting for you on your return

 

[TOURKID]

lil juvi looks just fine female is grumpy. her top fin has a crust on it sort of. and she has markings on her face (but i think these may be the anemone stings

dan. (highjacking my thread) I was reading joyces book lastnight. and i ran across this blurbs about clarkiis

'clarks clowns pairs are prone to interesting morphological problem. the male may develop into a female, desite the presence of a ranking female. two maids may tolorate eachother, they may even lay a few clutches of useless eggs, or they may fight and require seperate tanks. If your clarks pair ceases spawning and starts sparring, they may both need new mates or maybe they will share one.

Just thought it was cool. dident you have a pair turn on eachother?

 

[TOURKID]

a new coral hu? wow. that totally disturbs me. ive been buying up my share of corals and snails lately for sure.... a brain, a torch, and baby orange zoas..zoas all died almost right away... cocoapods were all over it eating... my fish are so much more important to be than those stupid corals......

 

[traveller7]

Quarantine everything my friend, even your corals.

QT should be a fully cycled and functional aquarium. Corals should get a "reef" type QT.

Hospitals should be barebottom with disposable or bleachable equipment.

 

[dantodd]

maggie, yes. That is my working theory on what I think happened to them.....

 

[TOURKID]

well they are eating doing theyre normal daily activitys

The female is being a little mean to the juvi, but nothing serious.

Only weirdnes.

On the females dorsal fin...
When your looking at it, there is little 'spines' ill call them.

Well at the very top of each spine, theres crust, or a white dot... or somthing is attached to every single dorsal spine. But not the tissue connecting them all....

Does this even sound like brook? Little guy had these on his left pectoral (side) fin yesterday.. and was clamping the right one.. but I dont see this on him today.

 

[traveller7]

IME: it could be scar tissue, bacterial, fungal(unlikely), and yes, remants of Brook damage.

Another symptom we see quite frequently is an erosion type of wound within the area of the first stripe. Looks almost like pitting. Such may also be from Amyloo though.

I would likely give them another bath of formalin in highly aerated water taken from the tank before you leave. Then let nature takes it course.

At the end of the day, you are seeing them real time and will need to make a treat no treat decision.

Best of luck in all possible paths.

 

[milkshake]

I think my clown is about to die. He just started yesterday acting strange. He stays in the upper left corner but he is turning sideways and fluttering alot. Sometimes I can hear the water splash a little from him fluttering at the top of the water. I can't keep fish alive for some reason...I think I'm just going to stick with corals (zoas,lps). Anyway...I think he has an internal parasite because there is no signs of spots or legions on the outside. He's still alive...so could I do a freshwater dip? If so, for how long?

 

[TOURKID]

well, if it was internal parasites you would likely see white stringy poop.. and it wouldent kill the fish, the fish would becomw skinny and malnurished....
a fresh water dip wouldent fix this.

If your fish is swimming at the top.. im guessing it is breathing very heavy too. is it? if ao, it needs oxegen...

we will try to help u best as we can. but we need these things from you

all your water perimeters (salinity, nirate, trite, ammonia, etc)
what changes have u made lately
how old is the tank, how long have u had the fish?
what other visual signs on the fish do u see?
can u get a pic of your fish?


theres a couple resons it could be breathing heavy or sick.

do u have a quarentine set up? get this done if you can, you'll probley need it

and dont give up!!! its awfully rewarding when u can save your fish.. and kinda heart breaking when it dies