Need Electrical Help.

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255596#post8255596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer90210
Bean, you are assuming ALL 5000 watts are on at the same time and for 24hrs a day to get a huge elec bill..

I just assumed that for the max load calculation. I am aware that some of the equipment will only be momentary or sheduled

The electric bill comment was a funny

Anyways, point is, my electric bill will go up for sure, but I dont think its going to be rediculously high. but we will see.

We can easily add it up with regards to your schedule and come up with a pretty good estimate.

As for adding a single 50, is that assuming I have enough room in my total load..so if my house is 200, and I am already using all 200, I cannot just add another 50 right? It would have to replace something? Of course if I am not using all of it , it shouldnt be an issue.

I think you have the idea. You are not likely anywhere near overloading your MAIN breaker. A clamp on meter at the 2 main service conductors would give you an idea of where you are at (your electrician can tell you if this is something you are not comfortable doing). DOn't make the common mistake of "adding" the listed values of the circuit breakers in the panel and comparing them to the main. You will find that even a sparsely populated panel will have a total that far exceeds the main breakers value.

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255697#post8255697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer90210
btw , for the MH lights, 1400 seems high, I have 3x250 now and max i would upgrade would be 3x400..but I think I should be ok with 3x250.

Anyways, I added up everything and it came out to 4400.. to get amps dont you divide by 110? Or is it 120?

I divided by 110 to get just under 40 amps and that is assuming ALL devices are on at the same time, which I doubt it will ever happen but I know I'd be safer in planning for something like that.

Guess I need to call the electrician again.

You mentioned the 3x400 upgrade. That is 1200 Watts... add in some overhead for the ballast efficiency and you are around 1400 (maybe a bit more or less depending on the ballast configuration).

With the 3x250 and ballast efficiency you are likely around 850-900 watts. Again this is give or take 50-75 watts.

You divide by the available voltage. I used 110, as it will result in a higher amperage (thus giving you a more realistic worse case). To be even safer you could divide by 100 (as that is acceptable mains power in the US). Most UPS equipment or brownout protection does not kick in until the voltage drops to around 98.

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

Re: Re: wire run

Re: Re: wire run

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255717#post8255717 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer90210
Pretty sure I do, it is a brand new house (well, built in 2001).

Most residential homes do not have conduit runs in them. Most are wired with ROMEX type cable that is stapled to the stud framing. This is cheaper (A LOT) than MC (armored cable) or conduit installations.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255566#post8255566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WarrenG
Thanks for the suggestion.

Warren I will glady PM you the link to each thread I participate in! That way you can follow me around and police my speech and notify the moderators if you feel I have been abrasive towards somebody!

On the same token, I am still wondering what your purpose or contribution to this thread is? You do know you can report your own posts too! I mean honestly you dropped in and patted a guy on the back and in the same breath took a pot shot at me. I don't remember reading anything about electricity though.

Relax Warren, it is the internet Just be glad your not my next door neighbor... I would hate for you to lose sleep because you lived next to such an abrasive jerk It may even be worse, our wives could get along! Then what would we do?

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255727#post8255727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer90210
btw guys. I enjoy your debating, but lets not get it out of hand , I am learning some here so I'd like not to have the thread closed.

That is the idea (learning). Everybody (well almost) has posted with good intentions. QWIV had the best of intentions (as did Adam and the others who have contributed). I think all of us just want to make sure that only safe advice is given. We all don't give perfect advice all of the time, so having a debate is a good thing, as long as the facts get sorted out.

 

[jamielind]

what i am trying to do so i only have to pull one wire is making everything run 220. my halides can be switched and im trying to find pumps that can to. ive found some sequence pumps that can be made to run with 220. you can run twice the amps on 220 that you can with 110 using the same size wire. you can only do this (i think) if it is a dedicted circuit. anyone please correct me if im wrong so i can change my plans.

 

[Zephrant]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8259199#post8259199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamielind
you can run twice the amps on 220 that you can with 110 using the same size wire.

Not quite correct- the amp capacity of any wire is independent of the voltage. What I think you meant to say is that you can run twice the WATTS on the same size wire, if you go to 220v, which is true. 220V at 15A is twice the power as 110V at 15A.

However, I'd much rather be shocked with 110v than 220v, but I might be funny that way.

Zeph

 

[Zephrant]

BTW- I pulled a few comments, please don't make me read the rest of this thread to pull more.

Consider this a polite warning to stick to the facts, and drop the personal attacks- If you are wondering if this warning was meant for you, it probably was.


Thanks all-

 

[jamielind]

on my ballast box it says 110 volt 4 amps 220 2 amps. im pretty sure its amps X volts = watts. if you double the volts you halve the amps. id rather not get shocked by either.

 

[jamielind]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question501.htm

 

[BeanAnimal]

Jamie

Volts * Amps = Watts

So

110V * 20A = 2200W
220V * 20A = 4400W

That said, lets take a 200W light load and attach it to both 110 and 220 services.

200W/110V = 1.81A
200W/220V = .909A

As you can see as the VOLTAGE increases the CURRENT draw decreases to supply the same amount of POWER.

Here is the problem. Zeph hit the nail on the head. 220V is not something you want to get shocked with. For many reasons, the NEC has also outlawed 220V lighting in houses. Why not just run a single feeder and put in a sub panel for the tank. This can be as simple as a #10 30A feed or a #6 50A feed. A small panel box at HD sells for $20. You can stuff a handfull of 15A breakers into the box to feed different parts of the tank. You will only use a a double pole space in the main panel.

 

[Runner]

Just skim-read this thread. What was Reefer90210's question again?

 

[BeanAnimal]

It's been answered... now we are just playing in the sandbox and waiting for him to get back from lunch with new information

 

[wife no likey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8259199#post8259199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamielind
what i am trying to do so i only have to pull one wire is making everything run 220.

As Bean suggest, I think it would be best to just run a 50a line w/ 6-3 to a subpanel w/ some 15a breakers - gfci ones if they will all be dedicated to your tank. You can get gfci's off ebay considerably cheaper than home depot, etc. as well.

Just run 14-2 romex to your outlets from there.


The only thing to adding a your subpanel is that it must be grounded at the service entrance. You DO NOT bond neutral to ground. You need to add a grounding bar to the subpanel and keep your grounds and neutrals separate until they reach your main load center.

 

[BeanAnimal]

BTW a 50A sub panel should only cost $15 bucks or so. The ground bar will be another $3 or so. You do not need to buy a panel with a main breaker (it is nice, but not needed). I am in the process of adding (3) sub panels for my house.

100A sub for my kitchen and deck
50A sub for the shed/workshop
50A sub for the tank

Remember you need (3) conductors plus ground.

As penniless pointed out the neutral and ground MUST not be bonded (connected) in the sub panel. Each must terminate on it's own bus bar. DO NOT USE THE BONDING SCREW that comes with the panel.

This also means that all equipment grounds (bare copper or green) must terminate on the GROUND BUS and all NEUTRAL (white) wires must terminate on the NEUTRAL bus.

If ANY of this sounds foreign or confusing, you REALLY MUST consult a professional. This is not the project to cut your teeth on. Shorting a 15A outlet, and causing a fault in a 50A or 100A feeder circuit are two very different beasts.

The best (safest) route would be to buy the materials and do the rough in work. That is, mount the box and get everything ready for the electrician. Have a pro come terminate the connections. You will save a lot of money if you can do most of the grunt work. Also, your insurance compamy might like the idea of you getting an inspection sticker on the new box I even buckled and got a sticker on the main panel when I upgraded it from a 1960s 100A to a modern 200A. I plan on selling the house someday and just know one of those moron home inspectors would make a fuss about not seeing a sticker. They are much harder to get after the fact, as no inspector wants to put his name on something he knows nothing about.

 

[Reefer90210]

no worries guys, I plan on having my electrician do EVERYTHING... electricity is not something I mess around with. I have an expensive house and there is no point saving a few hundred dollars and then losing hundreds of thousands or more.

 

[jamielind]

i didnt want to run a 30 amp line too my tank. never even thought of using it as a feeder line. makes it alot easier because 220 pumps seem to not have may choices. and i wont have to rewire my ballasts. one ? though. why would 220 be more dangerous than 110. ive gotten a zapp from both and i couldnt tell the difference .

 

[jamielind]

im sure there is a reason, but i thought volts jolt and mils kill. doesnt a tazer that hits you with 50,000 volts not kill you because the amps are so low. so wouldnt a 220 volt light running at 2 amps be safer than a 110 running at 4 amps. i know im missing something but id like to know what it is.

 

[jamielind]

sorry for taking this of topic but i think the original ? has been answered and im curious

 

[MinibowMatt]

yor correct. higher amps=more deadly. However, I believe it only takes like 7-800ma across the heart to kill a person.. (depending on the persons body)