Need Help. How to restart 15 Year old Tank (Old Live Rock)

[Wally.B]

Hello,

Need your advice on methods for a real good clean up and re-start method for an OLD TANK.

Especially a tank that has old rocks, which are probably infused with nutrients being over 15 years old.

I can't afford throwing out so much old rock, especially since I have some nicely shaped large pieces. Willing to throw out some of the base rock pieces.

My 15+ year old Tang Died today. Been my friend for years, and was center piece of my tank. Fish have come and gone, but he's been my original when I started this hobby.

I'm Sad that he died, but on bright side, this gives me an opportunity to start fresh. Something I couldn't do when I had my main fish.

I want to tear down this tank, but not completely.

One reason for this restart hope, is that every time I have done some serious clean up, like taking all rocks out, scrubbing, reassembling. 6-8 months later, the green algae slowly comes back each time. Cyano starts coming back, and the tank look ready for another scrubbing. Recently the problem come back faster. 2-3 Months. Yes too much feeding and circulation is contributing factor, but I have even done minimal feeding, and algae just comes back.

I will improve circulation wrt return flow. My skimmer is fine, but return flow rate to a sump 1 floor down need to be improved. Inside tank circulation is fine. Just added a MaxSpect Gyre, so more than plenty.

When I'm done, the MH/T5 lights will be replace by LED. Deciding between A Maxspect Razor, two Kessils, or Radions.

What I need help with, is what is the best way to clean up a tanks (live Rock). Don't mean just taking everything out, and cleaning. Done that many times.

I plan to give my friend all my fish, shrimp..etc So that I don't have to feed the tank any nutrients while I do my clean up and restore.

Should I keep all the snails, hermits, starfish, Urchin, to continue their work on the rocks, with a fishless tank, while nutrients get removed by running system?

I will keep MH light off. T5's off. Just turn on one actinic for a couple of hours a day, so Corals have some lighting. Alternative, is I put corals into a bin and give them more lighting out of the Tank system.

Is there a way that I can refresh the old rocks?

Should I Put/cycle most rocks into a separate vat, and run circulation with little or no light? to kill all the algae (properly)?

How about a way to de-nuitrify the rock? Have them sit in a vat doing water changes for a few weeks? What other ways are there.

I don't want to do anything drastic that would completely kill the live rock. All rocks have great coralline coverage, and when I scrub them, they look amazing.

The larger leather attached to a Large rock will have to stay in the tank. All other corals can be moved out.

Any idea's appreciated.

Picture below., is the 90 Gallon tank. There are the old rocks. And there is my Powder blue Tang who just died today.

Pic doesn't show the Algae and Cyano problem, since this is after a light inside the tank cleaning.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Breadman03]

There are a couple solutions that you could implement here that wouldn't require you to break down your tank. A GFO reactor is a simple method where one places granular ferric oxide into a reactor and sets the flow so that the surface of the GFO lightly tumbles. The GFO must be changed out periodically as it can only absorb so much before it is exhausted.

Another popular method is carbon dosing. This is a process for growing bacteria in your tank. The bacteria need 3 main things to grow: nitrate, phosphate, and carbon. The idea is that the bacteria in our tanks run out of carbon before consuming all of the nitrate and phosphate, so we add an available carbon source to allow the bacteria to grow. A good skimmer is key to this process as the method of removing the nutrients from the system is removing those bacteria. There are 4 main sources that people choose from: vodka, sugar, vinegar, or biopellets.

All of these methods will take some time, but will work. Just make sure you research each method and implement whatever you choose carefully.

 

[tkeracer619]

Check out this thread. This is a quick and cheap method for removing excess nutrients from rock.http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2145395

 

[Wally.B]

There are a couple solutions that you could implement here that wouldn't require you to break down your tank. A GFO reactor is a simple method where one places granular ferric oxide into a reactor and sets the flow so that the surface of the GFO lightly tumbles. The GFO must be changed out periodically as it can only absorb so much before it is exhausted.

Another popular method is carbon dosing. This is a process for growing bacteria in your tank. The bacteria need 3 main things to grow: nitrate, phosphate, and carbon. The idea is that the bacteria in our tanks run out of carbon before consuming all of the nitrate and phosphate, so we add an available carbon source to allow the bacteria to grow. A good skimmer is key to this process as the method of removing the nutrients from the system is removing those bacteria. There are 4 main sources that people choose from: vodka, sugar, vinegar, or biopellets.

All of these methods will take some time, but will work. Just make sure you research each method and implement whatever you choose carefully.

Thanks Breadman, and next poster. I will continue researching, but certainly can start the clean up after my fish are gone.

I have everything I need. Including the ZeoBak, however I think in my case my rock is very bacteria loaded (possibly wrong kind of bacteria, Cyano)

However I see a contradiction. Breadman is saying I need Phosphates, Nitrates and carbon for GODD Bacteria Growth, to clean the rock. Tkeracer619's post article, which is great but talks about bringing Phosphates, and Nitrates down. The difference with my situation is I won't be introducing any new dead rock. And my Phosphates in the tank are no measurable via A Salphert test, because I was running the Phosphate reactor for about a month.

I have the Two Little Fishes Phosphate reactor on the tank. So when I go to purify this rock I was thinking of using it as a GFO reactor instead. I could add some ZeoBak which I was dosing in my problem tank to reduce Cyano. I also have Coral Snow, which I could also add, to help the skimmer I'll be running in the vat. Snow could also be used also in the tank to speed up purification. I have a 2nd spare Hang On skimmer that will run on the semi empty tank.

So what should I be doing. Running Phophate reactor to reduce Phosphates? Or run the reactor as a GFO reactpr to reduce nutrients? Or both?

Also I guess from what I see in the info post, is both tank and vat should have some lighting

I'm starting the tank semi teardown tomorrow, and will document with pictures as I go through the steps.

 

[Wally.B]

So here is what I thinking of doing. After some reading around.

STEP 0) All fish, and shrimp will be removed from Tank. Will not be put into BIN below.


BIN in Basement:
1A) I will take all the corals I can get out easily, and put them in a bin with fresh salt water (with Heater).
1B) (Should be enough bacteria on Coral Rock pieces to keep some bacteria content)
1C) Will add a drop every other day of the ZeoBak that I already have and was dosing with Coral Snow to stop Cyano
1B) Put light over the bin and keep them alive there. With MH lights hung high above.
1C) Bin will have my spare skimmer on it.
1D) Bin will have 1 power head for circulation.
1D) Only feed lightly my Live PhytoPhatkon, the odd time Oysterfeast.
1E) Some clean up critters will be added. (hermits, couple of snails)
1F) Run GFO in baggy under skimmer return and change weekly, or as needed.

TANK with SUMP:
2A) Take out rocks and do best cleaning. Put Rock back in tank
2B) Only run the 2 T5 Fiji Purple & Atnic lights on the tank. 1 hour a day. (To keep Coraline algae alive) Tank will get daylight and room lights.
2C) Continue running tank thru sump with main skimmer.
2D) Keep Phophate reactor running on tank.
2E) Continue to add coral snow every other day to help with nutrient export to skimmer
2F) Run Gyre pump max power for strong circulation. (No fish, Only Coral Toadstood Leather)
2G) Most clean up critters will stay in the tank. (hermits, Snails, Urchin, Starfish)
2H) Feed the odd pellet for critter to have something to eat besides rock nutrients.
2I) Take out rocks periodically for extra cleanups as the shed whatever they have to shed.
2J) GFO in Return sump area in baggy or tray and replace GFO weekly or as needed.

Wait and watch, while building a ALGAE scrubber like in this post. ALGAE SCRUBBER

Then someday when I feel things are stable and clean restore tank by putting back corals from bin and buying some fish. Tank shouldn't cycle , since Rocks will be kept alive.

Anyone think anything above can be improved??

 

[SteveZZR]

Was going to suggest an algae scrubber until you mentioned it in the last post. I'm hoping to build one soon for my upgrade tank - hoping to run an Upflow type in the rear chambers, could be worth you having a look at them in case this type would work well for your sumps shape/design.

 

[Wally.B]

Was going to suggest an algae scrubber until you mentioned it in the last post. I'm hoping to build one soon for my upgrade tank - hoping to run an Upflow type in the rear chambers, could be worth you having a look at them in case this type would work well for your sumps shape/design.

Up flow sounds interesting (must mean you send same water up for many passes) (Post a pic or link if you have one, or better when you build one). I'd like to use return flow water. Don't want to add more pumps. However I do have a pump on Phosphate reactor. Could use output from that.

BTW. I just Finished tearing down tank. Rocks really cleaned. Srubbed, triple dipped. And Rebuilt rockscape. Corals in bin. One fish, and other living stuff in 10Gal Quarantine tank.

I think I know why fish all died. I bought a fish from a new place, that was a start up. I got a diseased fish. Makes sense now. I visited that store after soon after getting mine. Their whole fish section was closed down. They said their bacteria was not quite ready.

Will post a pic of new setup. New pump and rock layout giving me really good circulation. Really cool when I turn on Gyre pump. Got a really powerful wave motion.

Kind of rush placing rocks, but for just rocks, tank looks different then ever before. Got a Peak look, Cave, and terrace.

Will post pic when dust settles tomorrow.

 

[tkeracer619]

If you have cyano you have excess nutrients. Now is the time to get rid of them. Forget your phosphate test kit. It's like measuring out a cup of water using a milk jug.

 

[Wally.B]

Update on this in a separate thread.

Photo update on progress of tank teardown, and future re-construct.

TANK Rebuild (Algae/Cyano) Control modifications