Need Help please...

[SereneAquatic]

My QT feels like a disaster.

There is a flame angel and a small CUC in QT for the main display, but I feel like I am going to kill them.

The heater that is warming the tank is at about 77 degrees to match the DT, but the heater that is warming the salt water for water changes has no way to adjust and just stays at 80 degrees. Each time I add new water to the 10 gallon QT, I'm sure the temp must swing as much as a few degrees.

Why the hurry to change the water? The ammonia levels are staying high, even with 30% water changes daily.

To make it worse, the Flame Angel still isn't eating, at least, not when I am looking. I suspect he has nibbled on the nori, but I have also seen the CUC on it. I did see him eat ONE bite of garlic soaked frozen food yesterday, after almost a week.

This seems impossible. I feel like my attempts at the QT must be very wrong for this to be so bad.

Are there just too many things in this tank? There was live rock in it from the DT that should have been helping offset the ammonia, but I took it out tonight because it made cleaning the tank impossible.

The CUC has 1 turbo snail, 6 astria snails, 1 emerald and 1 fire shrimp.

I'm ready to give up and throw them in the DT, but I don't want to risk the clown fish that are in there.

The only other thing I can think to do is a form of TTM and keep a tank ready on hand to move them all into every day or two.

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[rjpotts]

There is no really good reason, in my experience, to quarantine inverts. They are definitely adding ammonia to the tank, so that's not helping things.
I'd throw them in the display, fill up your water change container and let its temp decrease to match the tank naturally or put a bag of ice in it to speed up the process. Then change water as necessary.
How big is your mixing/storage container? Heaters aren't too expensive.

 

[SereneAquatic]

There is no really good reason, in my experience, to quarantine inverts. They are definitely adding ammonia to the tank, so that's not helping things.
I'd throw them in the display, fill up your water change container and let its temp decrease to match the tank naturally or put a bag of ice in it to speed up the process. Then change water as necessary.
How big is your mixing/storage container? Heaters aren't too expensive.

Right now i have a five gallon bucket that I am mixing and heating salt water in, as well as staging more in another 5 gallon container that came from LFS originally before we got our RODI unit. That one isn't being heated, and salt is added but not adjusted completely until it goes into the bucket because I seem not able to mix it well enough.

My other huge problem is that the refractometer is ALWAYS off. I swear I can calibrate it and 20 minutes later it is off again. I can even test the same water back to back and get different readings. I'm not talking small swings either. I'm afraid that the salinity is all over the place as i do water changes, along with the temp.

Like i said... QT disaster. I'm probably doing more harm than good in this process.

Losing fish to something unavoidable is one thing... But these feel like things I should be able to help!

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[Uncle99]

Hang on their mate. It sounds like your doing to much work.
Firstly, QT has nothing in it but fish. No need to QT inverts. Corals should be dipped and inspected for hitchhikers.
I never heat the water for a water change....10-15% change might lower temp by half a degree assuming it is kept in your house.
Fluctuations in SG is generally the fact that the mix has not been mixed enough. I use a powerhead to mix for at least 24 hours...

 

[rjpotts]

What refractometer are you using?
I'm assuming you're using calibration solution to calibrate it.. how are you doing that?
I find it fairly easy to get wild swings in sg readings with adding too much or too little water to the glass.
Consistency is key. Two small drops or so, close the cover slowly, no bubbles, no water dripping off the end, give it a few seconds to fill all the peaks and valleys.
Not fully mixing the water and measuring inconsistent temperatures can change the reading.
I agree that heating the water isn't totally necessary but 3g of 80* in 7g of 77 is going to cause a minimal change. If your house is at 74-76, room temperature water would be better than heating in most cases.
I'd throw a power head in the bucket and let it mix for at least a day as Uncle99 said.
Hopefully by now the cuc is cleaning up the display lol.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Thank you all for the feedback. I am moving the critters into the DT this morning and will keep the Angel in QT.

The reasons on the salinity readings being all over makes sense... Im not sure that I am doing all those things each time. I will be more careful going forward.

I do feel better about the temperature, thank you for the reassurance.

Thank you all again!

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[homer1475]

First thing first....

QT ANYTHING WET!!! PERIOD!!!

No need to QT inverts you all say? Then tell me why after 3 years of being ich free did I lose 5 fish to ich after I added a replenishment of CUC(snails only)? Thats right, the snails brought in an ich infestation. During part of it's life cycle it can encyst(sp?) on the shells of snails, crabs, and shrimp. While they cannot live on them, they can certainly carry the parasite into the tank.


EDIT to add:

I have seen fish not eat for several weeks while in QT. As long as it's not looking skinny, I wouldn't sweat it. You have an uncycled QT, it's totally normal to do 50% or more WC's to keep the ammonia level at bay. You might want to try some SeaChem Prime to quell that ammonia spike so you don't have to change water every day but rather every other day.

Your doing everything right, QT can be and is very stressful for the fish as well as the owner.

 

[Rover88]

First thing first....

QT ANYTHING WET!!! PERIOD!!!

This.

Ever seen whats on a snails shell? >.> Its not all good things. You aren't quarantining for the /snails/ safety or wellbeing, its whats on them!


As for the refractometer, I recalibrate mine off RODI water for every single use. (I don't have cal fluid yet, I'll use that when I get it)

 

[SereneAquatic]

First thing first....

QT ANYTHING WET!!! PERIOD!!!

No need to QT inverts you all say? Then tell me why after 3 years of being ich free did I lose 5 fish to ich after I added a replenishment of CUC(snails only)? Thats right, the snails brought in an ich infestation. During part of it's life cycle it can encyst(sp?) on the shells of snails, crabs, and shrimp. While they cannot live on them, they can certainly carry the parasite into the tank.


EDIT to add:

I have seen fish not eat for several weeks while in QT. As long as it's not looking skinny, I wouldn't sweat it. You have an uncycled QT, it's totally normal to do 50% or more WC's to keep the ammonia level at bay. You might want to try some SeaChem Prime to quell that ammonia spike so you don't have to change water every day but rather every other day.

Your doing everything right, QT can be and is very stressful for the fish as well as the owner.

Thank you for weighing in... I did another search this morning on what things can be carried by inverts before I went to put them in DT and decided against it. I did a large water change instead and will set up a separate QT for the inverts. I am hoping this will ease some of the ammonia issue.

I think I am also going to mix larger batches of salt water, using the Brute.

To address the other question above... I have to heat the water right now because the house is at about 69 degrees. Apparently everyone in the south called for propane refill at the same time and we are almost out, so the thermostat is way down.

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[sde1500]

House is 69, and that is way down? Lol wth you keep the house heated to normally?

Use prime to keep ammonia in check, way easier than blowing through tons of water.

 

[ReeferNoob4ever]

I agree with Prime or Stability. I use those and they work great at keeping ammonia at bay. I also just chuck things into my DT so yeah...

 

[Dr RBG]

I have a question about guaranteeing inverts. How do you neutralize any pathological organisms they may have? Are there safe treatments? I thought they were pretty sensitive to that stuff?

 

[Uncle99]

No question that QT everything is the best, the parasite has a short lifespan so the risk, other than fish is low....could you get some Ick on a snail, maybe in a drop of water, sure, but again the risk is low....