Need help with my new saltwater nano

[FlyinPete]

Hey guys!

I just started on my saltwater tank and I'm really at a loss regarding what I'm doing right/wrong.

A little bit of backstory before I go into the specs and my questions. I recently had an african cichlid tank (Mbuna) 55g but the glass cracked and I had to dispose of it. I was planning on starting an mbuna tank again but then I decided to actually start a saltwater tank. This may sound cliché but ever since I watched Nemo I wanted myself a pair o' clowns and a blue hippo tang. (Not going to get a Dory 'till I'm experienced and I have a way bigger tank guys no worries. Not into torturing beautiful marine creatures)

So with that I decided to go to my LFS and see what was required to start a saltwater tank. After I bought what I needed, I went home to setting up my tank (Was a real hassle, I didn't have a big bucket, I had to mix my water with like a 1g bucket and constantly just mix in water and salt. Took me like 2.5 hours because I kept on putting in too much salt or too little.)
but after all that I was done! I put in some nitrifying bacteria to help startup my tank and in around 4 days it was completely cycled.

(I know, I know the vast majority of people don't support plopping in livestock after 4 days of cycling even with nitrifying bacteria because it may be unsafe and stressful for the fish but all my parameters were PERFECT. 0 Nitrates/Nitrites and 0 Ammonia.)

At first I was unsure about adding in a pair of clowns because of all the mixed opinions on the forums so I decided to go with a yellow watchman goby that's around 1.5-2". I honestly love the symbiotic relationship between the goby and pistol shrimp so much but my LFS ran out of the shrimp so I just had to make due with the goby. (<Remember this part please, I'm going to have a question involving it)
It did well, my nitrate went up to 20 however but it went down quickly.

After around two days (I know this may sound horrible but my patience wore thin and I feel horrible about it) I purchased a pair of juvenile clowns.
I told myself no, get a bigger tank before doing this or at least regulate the tank so it would be able to handle the new load but I just did it.
I drip acclimated the clowns (They were accustomed to 1.025 salinity and I my tank is 1.0024) and put them in my tank. At first they were really skittish and just hung around the back corner of my tank but eventually they began to swim right up to me and in around 12 hours they began to eat. I bought around 64oz of frozen brine shrimp (<Please remember this part as well)
and fed it to my clowns.

Now to the present: The questions and the specs of the tank V

The tank is a 15 gallon nano tank it has:
10 pounds of live sand
16 pounds of live rock
100watt precision heater @ 79 Fahrenheit
425GPH powerhead
25 gallon quiet filter
A basic non LED light (Those are hecka expensive and I'd already spent one grand on the setup. Wanted to make sure I get more experienced before investing in LEDs for corals and stuff in the future.)

The current inhabitants of the tank:
Two juvenile A ocellaris clownfish
One 2" Yellow watchman Goby

Questions:

Q1 I scoured the internet and some people were saying that a single clown needed a minimum of 5g-20g depending on maturity.
The 2 clowns sizes (One is around 1" and the other is around 1 1/4")
I was wondering if I overstocked this tank. Especially for how new this tank is. They seem to be thriving but I still feel so guilty, I can't tell if they're truly happy of if there's some invisible thing that's causing them stress.

Q2 How do I feed my goby? Although he's been a lot less shy, he's still hiding and I drop a bit of extra food so that it sinks to the bottom and I'm not sure if he's getting this or not. The tank isn't established long enough for small foods to grow right? Will he starve to death? I really love my goby and I don't want anything bad to happen to it

Q3 I bought 64 ounces of brine shrimp, I didn't realize how much this would be until I got it. The first FIVE times I fed my fish (I'm currently at 7 feedings) I put in way way way way too much food. There would be shrimp flying around the tank, I try to get it out but all I do is scare the fish. In the matter of seconds, the shrimp are in the sand or live rock and I can't get them out. I'm scared to death that this will cause an ammonia spike and kill everything. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening? I'm aware that I have to do water changes but how often? Every other day? Weekly? Please help me with this one, I want to provide the best stress free environment as possible.

Q4 My clowns are always swimming against the powerhead and swimming up and down the tank. They're powerful swimmers but I'm curious, is this normal behaviour? From what I've read, they like swimming against a current so that's fine but is swimming up and down normal? For most freshwater fish, that's a sign of deep displeasure. Like for cichlids I think it means that they're trying to find a new source of clean water. Other then that they seem to be fine. No white dots, beautiful color and just in general just the most beautiful fish. They don't seem to be heavily breathing and they eat like pigs.

Q6 Although my clowns SEEM to be doing really well, my goby seems a tad bit more pale then when he was at the LFS. I don't know if this is because lack of feeding or just because he's not adjusting well to the environment but I'm really worried for him. I'm planning on getting a pistol shrimp to pair with him to maybe make him happier and less shy but I don't know.

Q7 I'm planning on getting cleaner shrimp for my tank but I'm wondering if any of my tank inhabitants or to be tank inhabitants (Pistol shrimp) would kill them. It's a really tiny tank, I read online that it's possible but the cleaner shrimp usually doesn't hang around the bottom where the pistol shrimp is butbecause this tank is so tiny will it prove to be a problem?

Q8 Should I just give these clowns/goby up? As much as I'd love them, and as hard as I'd try to keep them alive, will they just not be happy?
Will they hate the little space they're given? This is probably the most important question. Regardless of my wants, they should be given to a home that suits their needs.

Lastly, is there any other information you guys could give me? I've been researching saltwater for a while now but I still feel like I'm such a beginner.
I plan on starting a 75-90 gallon saltwater in a few months after I save up the money (Slowly getting there) and converting this 15g into a growout/breeder or a quarantine or nursing tank but I'm not sure yet.
I'm an avid aquarium hobbyist and I'm trying my best to learn.

If you guys have read all this, thank you. I know it's not easy with my messy writing and etc haha.


P.S Would anyone know a better PH/Nitrate/Nitrite etc tester? Tetra's testing strips are really just horrific. I'd appreciate if it wasn't a liquid. Thanks again

 

[Mark_C]

You're opening statement of 'being at a loss' is a bad omen.

I'm new to the hobby (7 months in) and did a year's research before starting. I'm currently upgrading a tank myself, I'm hoping it will be ready to accept fish in 8 weeks or so. Patience is the key. I have two fish I'm excited about introducing to the new tank but would love to put in my current tank. They're in a quarantine tank on my kitchen counter for the next 8 weeks.

Regardless,

Did you use RO/DI water (which is specifically filtered water for salt water fish) or did you use tap? Tap leads to increased algae breakouts and tank contamination, even if used with the 'makes water safe' chemicals.

Do you have a protein skimmer or a good filter? Though you mentioned being on a budget in a 15g tank it is a priority.
Water changes of 10% are recommended weekly under normal circumstances, assuming the tank has gone through a proper cycle.

Two clowns are enough. A tang is out of the question. I'd love a tang but I only have a 40g, its unfair to the tang.

A tank 'cycles'. A 'cycle' usually takes weeks. When you add your live rock/sand to the tank it takes a while for the dead organisms present on them to decompose, which causes the chemical spikes. Bacteria then, if established properly, balance the tank over the following couple of weeks. I fear that your fish may be subject to an ammonia spike in the next week or two which, if it doesn't kill them, will cause considerable discomfort.
When I started my tank I waited for the ammonia spike. I had a 40g with 50 pounds of live rock and was 'chomping at the bit' waiting for things to happen. As advised against I avoided the chemicals and went the 'raw shrimp' and 'ghost feeding' route. Five weeks in with an empty tank and the spike occurred, and it would have easily killed anything in the tank at the time. Two weeks later, I added my clowns, blennie, etc and they're all still doing well.

Test strips will not cut it here. You need to monitor calcium, magnesium, pH, ammonia, gravity, etc. A decent saltwater/reef kit and a good hydrometer (electronic or refractory) are essential.

You're unsure of your stock, you didn't cycle properly, you're unsure of your feedings, you don't know normal behavior of your fish, you're testing at a level well below requirements with improper tools, and you're looking to expand the population of your tank.

STOP!

As evidenced by the amount I typed I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really need to back off a bit, give your fish out to adoption or maybe to someone who will hold them for you for a while, and do a load of research .
This hobby takes research, money, time, equipment, time, and money and, though there are some shortcuts in equipment expense there are no shortcuts in preparation.

With all due respect, if you are as impatient as your post implies and can not secure the proper equipment, it might be best to give it up for now, relax a bit, save some dough, do some research, ask some questions in RC, and come back on in strong in the future with no worries.

 

[FlyinPete]

You're opening statement of 'being at a loss' is a bad omen.

I'm new to the hobby (7 months in) and did a year's research before starting. I'm currently upgrading a tank myself, I'm hoping it will be ready to accept fish in 8 weeks or so. Patience is the key. I have two fish I'm excited about introducing to the new tank but would love to put in my current tank. They're in a quarantine tank on my kitchen counter for the next 8 weeks.

Regardless,

Did you use RO/DI water (which is specifically filtered water for salt water fish) or did you use tap? Tap leads to increased algae breakouts and tank contamination, even if used with the 'makes water safe' chemicals.

Do you have a protein skimmer or a good filter? Though you mentioned being on a budget in a 15g tank it is a priority.
Water changes of 10% are recommended weekly under normal circumstances, assuming the tank has gone through a proper cycle.

Two clowns are enough. A tang is out of the question. I'd love a tang but I only have a 40g, its unfair to the tang.

A tank 'cycles'. A 'cycle' usually takes weeks. When you add your live rock/sand to the tank it takes a while for the dead organisms present on them to decompose, which causes the chemical spikes. Bacteria then, if established properly, balance the tank over the following couple of weeks. I fear that your fish may be subject to an ammonia spike in the next week or two which, if it doesn't kill them, will cause considerable discomfort.
When I started my tank I waited for the ammonia spike. I had a 40g with 50 pounds of live rock and was 'chomping at the bit' waiting for things to happen. As advised against I avoided the chemicals and went the 'raw shrimp' and 'ghost feeding' route. Five weeks in with an empty tank and the spike occurred, and it would have easily killed anything in the tank at the time. Two weeks later, I added my clowns, blennie, etc and they're all still doing well.

Test strips will not cut it here. You need to monitor calcium, magnesium, pH, ammonia, gravity, etc. A decent saltwater/reef kit and a good hydrometer (electronic or refractory) are essential.

You're unsure of your stock, you didn't cycle properly, you're unsure of your feedings, you don't know normal behavior of your fish, you're testing at a level well below requirements with improper tools, and you're looking to expand the population of your tank.

STOP!

As evidenced by the amount I typed I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really need to back off a bit, give your fish out to adoption or maybe to someone who will hold them for you for a while, and do a load of research .
This hobby takes research, money, time, equipment, time, and money and, though there are some shortcuts in equipment expense there are no shortcuts in preparation.

With all due respect, if you are as impatient as your post implies and can not secure the proper equipment, it might be best to give it up for now, relax a bit, save some dough, do some research, ask some questions in RC, and come back on in strong in the future with no worries.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I didn't say I was going to put a tang in my tank, I know that a blue hippo tang requires at least a 180 gallon (Or so I'm told) as it's super prone to ick and it grows to a foot long.

I do have the proper equipment for the nano tank, the lighting isn't really what I hoped for and I should've probably gotten a better kit but my LFS said my parameters were alright. I may have been a bit quick to jump the gun and add fish but I figured it wouldn't be that much of an issue since they told me the Nitrifying bacteria would cycle the tank in 2-4 days.

I'm not looking to expand the population of my tank, could you quote where I said so? I said in the future I'm looking into getting certain crustaceans to help clean my tank and a pistol shrimp to pair with the goby.

I'm sure of my feedings, I'm just unsure of how to get rid of excess food,how to do it manual or to get cleaner shrimp/snails.

I'm aware of my fish's behaviour I was just making sure nothing was wrong because I don't want any of them to end up dying.

You raise a lot of good points but honestly it does seem as though you're intentionally trying to attack me. I'm not that clueless, I just asked questions regarding the necessity of cleaning shrimps/snails, odd behaviours that may signal future problems, if anybody's used nitrifying bacteria and had any bad results. I may not have phrased my questions properly because I made the thread in a rush but that's basically it.

 

[Mark_C]

Attacking you, no. Trying to help and offer advice, yes. If I didn't empathize and want to help I wouldn't have spent the time writing the post. I'm sorry you interpreted it in the way you did and will remove myself from any further responses in the thread. Best of luck and I honestly hope all works out well.

 

[FlyinPete]

Attacking you, no. Trying to help and offer advice, yes. If I didn't empathize and want to help I wouldn't have spent the time writing the post. I'm sorry you interpreted it in the way you did and will remove myself from any further responses in the thread. Best of luck and I honestly hope all works out well.

Thanks for the help, it just came off as really hostile.

Hopefully it does, I'm thinking about just scrapping the tank and starting a 90 gallon in two months.

 

[gotnoclue]

First; I have only been at this a few months myself. Second; never trust your LFS unless you know what you are doing/talking about. At the end of the day they are still sales people trying to make a paycheck.

When I first started I made a lot of mistakes. Luckily all lead me to a good path and my 29 gallon is now doing great.

A few quotes I found tremendously helpful and I think you need to hear.
"nothing good happens fast in a reef tank"
"the only solution to pollution is dilution"

Your tanks bacteria will handle extra food if they don't your skimmer or filter will. Calm down and try to feed less. Never feed more than they can eat in three minutes. If you have fed to much do a small water change every other day. Most articles will recommend no more than a ten percent water change in any tank under 40 gallons. If you pull more than that out you are removing to much bacteria and your tank falls out of balance.

Your tank Is way over stocked. One maybe two clown fish at the most. With fresh water tanks we say an inch of fish per gallon of water, but even that rule is often overstocking a tank. With salt water follow the recommended practices I prefer liveaquaria.com or badmanstropics.com both are great sites. If you add crustaceans they need to be figured into your livestock room. Crabs and other invertebrates still dirty the water and need a set amount of water to hold their waste. While this amount of water is on average less than that needed for a fish it is still needed.

And finally; live sand while measured by weight actually needs to be set up in inches if you have a cube 10lbs maybe to much DSB are generally no taller than 4 inches. So remember all things are variable in this world what works for my tank may not work in yours.

Now for my opinion. Take out the goby. Research filtration skimmers are preferred to mechanical if you have to choose one or the other. Your clean up crew should be put in at about this point emerald crabs and snails are what I have seen recommended for smaller tanks. Upgrade your lighting live rock needs a t5 full spectrum light as a minimum to support the bacteria that makes it live rock.

Never use strip tests always use liquid tests


Sincerely your equally lost friend

 

[Phildirt]

Unfortunately the better kits for ammonia nitrite nitrate have liquid reagents. The test strips are easy and work but IMO are not as sensitive and are prone to moisture contamination in the storage container. For ph you could get a pH probe, just leave it the tank.

Make sure you have some amquel plus or prime on hand, this can help lock the ammonia during a spike with livestock in the tank. Additionally, make sure you have RODI/distilled water ready to mix salt for a quick water change if you get a ammonia spike.

1 gallon buckets sounds like a pain to mix salt in. I have a 5 gallon food container, it's clear with quart markings on the side. Easy to use.

Saltwater tanks hold less livestock than freshwater because the inhabitants are less tolerant to swings and waste products (for the most part). I think you are pushing the limit livestock wise and would hold off for now.

I'd get a cheap Walmart 10 gal tank, one that comes with a hood-light-filter-heater to keep on hand for a quarantine/hospital tank. Make sure you have a couple large PVC pipe fittings in the tank for hiding places.

 

[FlyinPete]

First; I have only been at this a few months myself. Second; never trust your LFS unless you know what you are doing/talking about. At the end of the day they are still sales people trying to make a paycheck.

When I first started I made a lot of mistakes. Luckily all lead me to a good path and my 29 gallon is now doing great.

A few quotes I found tremendously helpful and I think you need to hear.
"nothing good happens fast in a reef tank"
"the only solution to pollution is dilution"

Your tanks bacteria will handle extra food if they don't your skimmer or filter will. Calm down and try to feed less. Never feed more than they can eat in three minutes. If you have fed to much do a small water change every other day. Most articles will recommend no more than a ten percent water change in any tank under 40 gallons. If you pull more than that out you are removing to much bacteria and your tank falls out of balance.

Your tank Is way over stocked. One maybe two clown fish at the most. With fresh water tanks we say an inch of fish per gallon of water, but even that rule is often overstocking a tank. With salt water follow the recommended practices I prefer liveaquaria.com or badmanstropics.com both are great sites. If you add crustaceans they need to be figured into your livestock room. Crabs and other invertebrates still dirty the water and need a set amount of water to hold their waste. While this amount of water is on average less than that needed for a fish it is still needed.

And finally; live sand while measured by weight actually needs to be set up in inches if you have a cube 10lbs maybe to much DSB are generally no taller than 4 inches. So remember all things are variable in this world what works for my tank may not work in yours.

Now for my opinion. Take out the goby. Research filtration skimmers are preferred to mechanical if you have to choose one or the other. Your clean up crew should be put in at about this point emerald crabs and snails are what I have seen recommended for smaller tanks. Upgrade your lighting live rock needs a t5 full spectrum light as a minimum to support the bacteria that makes it live rock.

Never use strip tests always use liquid tests


Sincerely your equally lost friend

Would it be possible if I just returned a single clown instead? A single clown needs around 20 gallons according to LiveAquaria and I'm assuming that's a fully grown clown. Mine are 1 1/4"-1 /1/4".

I really love my goby and secondly it's legitimately impossible to get him out even though my tank is tiny I'd have to take out every rock and search the sand. I don't want to stress him out.

Thanks for the help, I thought I was just going to receive negative feedback for my rash decisions.

 

[Jeremiah_Conway]

Liquid tests are the only way to go and not the quick test kit
Ammonia test takes 20 minutes

 

[gotnoclue]

Good point Jeremiah I sometimes have to run tests multiple times because I use the quick tests. Always size fish to the aquarium as if they are full grown. That's a mistake I made with my first freshwater. Ended up with some very aggressive fish. Gonna get flack for this next part but, i have two clowns and two yellow tail damsels in my 29 gallon standard tank. These are small fish but I am technically over stocked.

As I remember (quoting from memory) a watchmen goby should be in no less than a thirty gallon tank and clown fish are recommended for twenty or larger. Honestly I would take all three out and get fish that will stay small

I get away with my fish because my display tank is 29 gal but my sump is also a 20gall.

 

[Sk8r]

We have a sticky up top which is titled SETTING UP. Before you spend any more, please give that a read (it's an actual book) in the sections that make sense to you right now.

 

[gone fishin]

I agree with Sk8r. I would not add anything else to the tank. I would also get some test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. While not the best API should suffice, better than test strips. Good luck

 

[FlyinPete]

I actually have plans for a 90gallon that I'll be finished setting up in the next 2-3 months. I just got the tank and the live rock but I'm still on my way to purchasing the lights and everything else.

I'm just curious, how often would I have to do a water change on my tank to keep these fish alive? I know their bioload is way to high for my tank so I'll have to be cautious, I'm installing a R/O filter in my home this Friday so I'll be able to quickly do a water change if the ammonia or etc spikes.

Currently all my fish are doing phenomenally well, the only two problems are that one, my clowns have a huge appetite, they ask for feedings around 3-4 times a day but they only nibble on the brine shrimp I've brought them, eat maybe three to four pieces but after that they just spit out the rest. The thing is that they're still hungry. They look at my hands like they expect something else to be dropped down and I have nothing. I'm planning on buying hikari food pellets this weekend, I hope they'll eat that. Also should I limit their feedings a bit more so it'll slow their growth?

Another thing, I've had my goby for around 5 days (6 tomorrow) and I haven't seen him eat. I mean I've dropped a few extra bits of shrimp so that it sinks to the bottom but I don't think he's been getting it. He's lost a bit of his yellow luster but he's still active. He's really shy but occasionally he just peeks out from his favorite spot. He's been exploring a few crevices and just been peeping out here and there. Is he actually eating? I don't want him to starve to death.

None of my fish have any laboured breathing and they're all still doing well.