NEED HELP WITH RO/DI SYSTEM
- Thread starter dogstsx
- Start date
Help me understand how your system is setup. What I'm seeing is the flow following this path:
1. Source Water (utility sink)
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon Plus
5. RO Membrane
6. DI
7. DI
8. Water Storage
Is that correct?
What's really throwing me off here is the flow slowing and completely stopping. That makes me think something is getting clogged somewhere is the system but, you stated you check the plumbing and there were no clogs so that's a bit of a head scratcher.
So, there's two issues here to try to solve. 1. Water production slowing and stopping and 2. High TDS after minimal use of the system.
If the flow path above is correct, my first suggestion would be to move the booster pump AFTER the carbon cartridge and BEFORE the RO membrane. Let's start there and see if that helps.
Here's how I have my system setup (I built it over time starting with a basic Spectrapure 3-stage system and adding over time as knowledge/technology increased).
1. Source Water
2. Sediment Filter
3. Carbon Cartridge
4. Chloramine Cartridge
5. Booster Pump
6. RO Membrane
7. Cation Resin
8. Anion Resin
9. Mixed Bed Resin
10. Water Storage
ETA - Can you post a picture of the system overall?
1. Source Water (utility sink)
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon Plus
5. RO Membrane
6. DI
7. DI
8. Water Storage
Is that correct?
What's really throwing me off here is the flow slowing and completely stopping. That makes me think something is getting clogged somewhere is the system but, you stated you check the plumbing and there were no clogs so that's a bit of a head scratcher.
So, there's two issues here to try to solve. 1. Water production slowing and stopping and 2. High TDS after minimal use of the system.
If the flow path above is correct, my first suggestion would be to move the booster pump AFTER the carbon cartridge and BEFORE the RO membrane. Let's start there and see if that helps.
Here's how I have my system setup (I built it over time starting with a basic Spectrapure 3-stage system and adding over time as knowledge/technology increased).
1. Source Water
2. Sediment Filter
3. Carbon Cartridge
4. Chloramine Cartridge
5. Booster Pump
6. RO Membrane
7. Cation Resin
8. Anion Resin
9. Mixed Bed Resin
10. Water Storage
ETA - Can you post a picture of the system overall?
Vinny Kreyling
Premium Member
You did flush the carbon filter before putting the unit into service, right? Too many fines could cause problems.
The membrane is seated all the way & not in backwards, right? Not being a jerk here but strange things do happen.
Your TDS meter on the blue line is connected wrong. The water is supposed to flow through the straight ends & the probe goes into the Tee section. Make sure it is in the right alignment position too.
No ASO on the unit? Then that must be what the blue valve is for.
Do yourself a favor, get a piece of red or yellow RO tubing for your wastewater.
It will make it a lot easier to trace lines & troubleshoot problems.
The membrane is seated all the way & not in backwards, right? Not being a jerk here but strange things do happen.
Your TDS meter on the blue line is connected wrong. The water is supposed to flow through the straight ends & the probe goes into the Tee section. Make sure it is in the right alignment position too.
No ASO on the unit? Then that must be what the blue valve is for.
Do yourself a favor, get a piece of red or yellow RO tubing for your wastewater.
It will make it a lot easier to trace lines & troubleshoot problems.
dogstsx
Member
I can post the entire set up as soon as I get home.
dogstsx
Member
I did not know this. I haven't had any issue with water pressure as it always stays about 75-80psi. But if needed, I can move it.
dogstsx
Member
I did not flush the carbon filter before installing it into the canister and running the water. I did of course open the flush valve and let run for 15-20 minutes before running it into the DI. The membrane is installed correctly for sure
. I see what you are saying about the TDS meter, and I will adjust that ASAP. As far as "waste water" what do you mean? I got to thinking about this. I could be wrong (I just now got back into the hobby after being out for over a decade) but I do remember when I used to make water I had a valve that I turned on WHILE making water that removed the bad parts (WASTE WATER) and still made the DI water. I could be wrong about this. I just remember there being a ton of waste water and 1/4 of that was actual clean water. This set up didn't have it or maybe I just hooked it up wrong. The only thing I see on this unit is the flush valve to turn on before it enters the DI to flush or clean the membrane.
Before moving the booster pump, let's try to figure out a few things.
Looking closer at your system, where is this flush valve located?
Somewhat related, where is the water line I pointed to with a red arrow going to?
dogstsx
Member
That is the flush valve. On the right (white hose) of course that is the water feed line into the booster pump, then the booster pump into the system. The blue hose is the flush hose. I open that valve then turn the water on from the clear tube (which of course is valved). I leave the flush valve open (the blue hose, your red arrow) until my TDS meter reads 7 or below and then I close that valve which now brings my water pressure up to the 75-80 psi and it runs into the di chambers. Only valve that is open of course is the valve from the last chamber of DI into my water barrel.
I think we may be on to something here. Where is your waste water line from the RO membrane? Is it the same as the flush valve line? If so, I think/believe what's happening is, when you close that valve, the pressure builds up in the system because waste water has no where to go. The resulting pressure build up would cause the solenoid to shut the system down.
Essentially, you should have two lines coming out of the RO membrane. One going to the DI cartridges (for product water) and one going to waste/drain. The waste line must remain open for the system to produce water. Where you want your flush valve to be is between the RO membrane and the first DI cartridge...so you can flush TDS creep from the membrane (before sending product water to the DI) but also leaving the waste line open.
So, here's what it would look like in your current setup:
1. Water Source
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon filter
5. RO Membrane
6a. Waste Water Line (going to drain)
6b. Product Water Line (going to the DI)
7. T-Fitting
7a. Line to DI
7b. Line Going to Shutoff Valve used as Flush Valve
Hope this makes sense. I have to prepare for a meeting I have in 30 minutes. If I have time after that, I'll try to make a diagram for you. I know I posted one on here several years ago but I can't find it right now.
dogstsx
Member
That's what I think I am missing is the Waste Line. I remember previous RO systems I had a waste line that I believe I left open when making water. When I was done I would close that valve & the main valve. Now, let me ask you this. Since I am clearly missing this waste line, is ALL the waste water being transferred back into the membrane and or put into the DI I have? Could that be the reasons as to why I'm burning through membranes and resin?
Okay, a couple of things. Yes, the tube I placed a red arrow on, IS your waste line.
So, what I believe is happening is when you close that, it's pushing all water (both product and waste water) through the DI causing it to exhaust rapidly. Also, as I mentioned, closing the waste line shuts down the system due to pressure build up...that's why production slows and then stops.
On the left side of the Membrane housing, there are two output tubes. One is product (filtered water) and the other is waste water. Make sure you have these properly identified with the product water line going to the DI and not the waste going to the DI. Since you bought the initial 4-stage system (sediment, carbon, RO, and DI) new, it should be plumbed correctly. So, that should not be an issue.
So, if you want to flush the membrane before producing water (to flush out TDS creep from the system sitting idle for periods of time, which I highly recommend to save DI resin) here's what we need to do here. This is hard to convey in type (if I was local to you, I'd come over and help in person) but I'll do my best.
1. Find the tube going from your RO Membrane housing to your first DI cartridge.
1a. We're likely going to need to replace that tubing with a longer tube so remove that tubing.
2. You'll want to purchase some 1/4" RO Tubing
3. You'll also want to purchase two John Guest Fittings: One 1/4" T-Fitting and one 1/4" Shutoff Valve
4. Place one end of your new/longer tubing into the membrane housing and the other into the input of the DI cartridge.
4a. Determine length based on not kinking the tubing and to fit your needs.
5. Cut the tubing in the middle and put both ends (one coming from the RO and one going to the DI) into the T-Fitting .
6. Push more (new section of) tubing into the final (output) of the T-Fitting and run this to your drain.
7. Somewhere in the tubing going to the drain, install the shutoff valve.
It should look (loosely) like this.
Hope that all makes sense.
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Another thing you might want to think about, is putting another T-fitting and between your carbon cannister and RO membrane with a shutoff valve going to your drain. That way, when you replace your carbon cartridge, you can flush the carbon cartridge to remove loose carbon so it doesn't get caught in your RO membrane and shorten its life.
I see I didn’t directly answer this. Yes, once you get the flush valve installed like I posted above, flush the membrane before making water to remove TDS creep and keep it from blowing through your DI resin.
For clarification, is the valve indicated below by the yellow arrow the one you are closing after TDS drops? If so, you're closing the waste line and the resulting pressure build up is what is shutting the system off. So again, if that's the case, you need to leave this valve open when you're producing water.
I'm trying to use the pictures and videos on AquaticLife's website to try to decipher this. Bare with me here, as I mentioned, I'm a very linear thinker and trying to follow my thoughts through this and (hopefully) clearly explain.
1. The purple arrow in the water coming into membrane from the carbon block.
2. The yellow arrow is the waste water coming out of the membrane.
3. The green arrow is the flush valve you can use to flush your membrane.
So, that all looks good to me. And, now that I can see there is a flush valve, there's no need to make any modification IMO. In other words, to flush the membrane to remove TDS creep from the membrane housing, all you need to do is open the valve indicated by the green arrow and flush until TDS drops coming out of the RO membrane.
If you haven't seen it, there's a pretty good video on AquaticLife's YouTube site.
@Vinny Kreyling @wvned @kharmaguru Any thoughts here?
I'm trying to use the pictures and videos on AquaticLife's website to try to decipher this. Bare with me here, as I mentioned, I'm a very linear thinker and trying to follow my thoughts through this and (hopefully) clearly explain.
1. The purple arrow in the water coming into membrane from the carbon block.
2. The yellow arrow is the waste water coming out of the membrane.
3. The green arrow is the flush valve you can use to flush your membrane.
So, that all looks good to me. And, now that I can see there is a flush valve, there's no need to make any modification IMO. In other words, to flush the membrane to remove TDS creep from the membrane housing, all you need to do is open the valve indicated by the green arrow and flush until TDS drops coming out of the RO membrane.
If you haven't seen it, there's a pretty good video on AquaticLife's YouTube site.
@Vinny Kreyling @wvned @kharmaguru Any thoughts here?
dogstsx
Member
YES, I open the blue flush valve (yellow arrow) until the TDS reads about 7ppm or lower and then I close it. When I open that valve the water pressure drops a lot (I would have to do it again to remember the pressure). When I close it, the water pressure jumps up to about 75psi.
