NEED HELP WITH RO/DI SYSTEM

[dogstsx]

I'm hoping someone on here has a pretty good understanding of the RO/DI system as I have been having issues since day 4. I purchased an Aquatic Life RO/DI 100gpd system. I installed it with using the water supply from my utility sink. Reading the directions & watching YouTube I figured I set it up correctly. I also tied in the digital TDS Meter. First turning on the water pressure was about 30-40 psi. I installed a booster pump with now brought the pressure up to 75-85psi. Seems to have perfect water pressure. I also installed a second DI chamber just to make sure the water had 0 TDS. After turning the system on and dumping/flushing the system I turned off the bypass and let the water run through both DI chamber and the water flowed perfectly! AWESOME! The next day my storage tank was full, good to go. About 4 days later I went to make more water and before I ran it through the DI I bypassed and dumped the water for about 10-12 mins until the TDS meter read the water was about 5ppm before the DI. Switched it off.. making water. after about an hour I noticed the water flowing into the barrel was slowing down.. then down.. after about 30 minutes no water at all. Checked all the plumbing, no clogs. Water was reading 50ppm out of the membrane and now the TDS was showing after the DI was 1-2ppm. I thought NO way I used up all that resin. I figured it was a new system and it needed to flush new stuff out.. Replaced the membrane and DI in both chambers and now the water was flowing perfectly again. Few days later the same thing. I retuned the system and got a brand new one thinking it was bad. NOPE, same thing. I have noticed that when the water stops flowing into the barrel I open the flush valve for a few seconds and then the water starts to flow again for about 10 minutes perfectly and then slows down and eventually stops. Water pressure still reads about 80psi the entire time (no loss of water pressure). I have also tried to see if there was a difference with the booster pump on and off, same results. So now its been 6 weeks, I've gone through 5 membranes, probably 6 full chambers of resin and I've made maybe 500 gals of water in total. Seems I go through a membrane and DI each water cycle about 75-100gals. Something has to be wrong with what I'm doing here. I've had previous systems and never had this issue. PLEASE someone help figuring out what I'm doing wrong here.

 

[griss]

Help me understand how your system is setup. What I'm seeing is the flow following this path:
1. Source Water (utility sink)
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon Plus
5. RO Membrane
6. DI
7. DI
8. Water Storage
Is that correct?

What's really throwing me off here is the flow slowing and completely stopping. That makes me think something is getting clogged somewhere is the system but, you stated you check the plumbing and there were no clogs so that's a bit of a head scratcher.

So, there's two issues here to try to solve. 1. Water production slowing and stopping and 2. High TDS after minimal use of the system.

If the flow path above is correct, my first suggestion would be to move the booster pump AFTER the carbon cartridge and BEFORE the RO membrane. Let's start there and see if that helps.

Here's how I have my system setup (I built it over time starting with a basic Spectrapure 3-stage system and adding over time as knowledge/technology increased).
1. Source Water
2. Sediment Filter
3. Carbon Cartridge
4. Chloramine Cartridge
5. Booster Pump
6. RO Membrane
7. Cation Resin
8. Anion Resin
9. Mixed Bed Resin
10. Water Storage

ETA - Can you post a picture of the system overall?

 

[griss]

Another thing I noticed, you have the booster pump install horizontally. It is generally recommended to install it vertically with the head facing up to avoid trapping air in the pump.

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

You did flush the carbon filter before putting the unit into service, right? Too many fines could cause problems.
The membrane is seated all the way & not in backwards, right? Not being a jerk here but strange things do happen.
Your TDS meter on the blue line is connected wrong. The water is supposed to flow through the straight ends & the probe goes into the Tee section. Make sure it is in the right alignment position too.
No ASO on the unit? Then that must be what the blue valve is for.
Do yourself a favor, get a piece of red or yellow RO tubing for your wastewater.
It will make it a lot easier to trace lines & troubleshoot problems.

 

[dogstsx]

Help me understand how your system is setup. What I'm seeing is the flow following this path:
1. Source Water (utility sink)
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon Plus
5. RO Membrane
6. DI
7. DI
8. Water Storage
Is that correct?

What's really throwing me off here is the flow slowing and completely stopping. That makes me think something is getting clogged somewhere is the system but, you stated you check the plumbing and there were no clogs so that's a bit of a head scratcher.

So, there's two issues here to try to solve. 1. Water production slowing and stopping and 2. High TDS after minimal use of the system.

If the flow path above is correct, my first suggestion would be to move the booster pump AFTER the carbon cartridge and BEFORE the RO membrane. Let's start there and see if that helps.

Here's how I have my system setup (I built it over time starting with a basic Spectrapure 3-stage system and adding over time as knowledge/technology increased).
1. Source Water
2. Sediment Filter
3. Carbon Cartridge
4. Chloramine Cartridge
5. Booster Pump
6. RO Membrane
7. Cation Resin
8. Anion Resin
9. Mixed Bed Resin
10. Water Storage

ETA - Can you post a picture of the system overall?

I can post the entire set up as soon as I get home.

 

[dogstsx]

Another thing I noticed, you have the booster pump install horizontally. It is generally recommended to install it vertically with the head facing up to avoid trapping air in the pump.

I did not know this. I haven't had any issue with water pressure as it always stays about 75-80psi. But if needed, I can move it.

 

[dogstsx]

You did flush the carbon filter before putting the unit into service, right? Too many fines could cause problems.
The membrane is seated all the way & not in backwards, right? Not being a jerk here but strange things do happen.
Your TDS meter on the blue line is connected wrong. The water is supposed to flow through the straight ends & the probe goes into the Tee section. Make sure it is in the right alignment position too.
No ASO on the unit? Then that must be what the blue valve is for.
Do yourself a favor, get a piece of red or yellow RO tubing for your wastewater.
It will make it a lot easier to trace lines & troubleshoot problems.

I did not flush the carbon filter before installing it into the canister and running the water. I did of course open the flush valve and let run for 15-20 minutes before running it into the DI. The membrane is installed correctly for sure . I see what you are saying about the TDS meter, and I will adjust that ASAP. As far as "waste water" what do you mean? I got to thinking about this. I could be wrong (I just now got back into the hobby after being out for over a decade) but I do remember when I used to make water I had a valve that I turned on WHILE making water that removed the bad parts (WASTE WATER) and still made the DI water. I could be wrong about this. I just remember there being a ton of waste water and 1/4 of that was actual clean water. This set up didn't have it or maybe I just hooked it up wrong. The only thing I see on this unit is the flush valve to turn on before it enters the DI to flush or clean the membrane.

 

[dogstsx]

Just for my own knowledge, am I doing it right by opening the flush valve when starting the system and watching the TDS meter go from 100 or 80ppm down to 7-3ppm then I close the flush valve and let the water run into the DI?

 

[griss]

I did not know this. I haven't had any issue with water pressure as it always stays about 75-80psi. But if needed, I can move it.

Before moving the booster pump, let's try to figure out a few things.

Just for my own knowledge, am I doing it right by opening the flush valve when starting the system and watching the TDS meter go from 100 or 80ppm down to 7-3ppm then I close the flush valve and let the water run into the DI?

Looking closer at your system, where is this flush valve located?

Somewhat related, where is the water line I pointed to with a red arrow going to?

 

[dogstsx]

Before moving the booster pump, let's try to figure out a few things.

Looking closer at your system, where is this flush valve located?

Somewhat related, where is the water line I pointed to with a red arrow going to?
View attachment 32404006

That is the flush valve. On the right (white hose) of course that is the water feed line into the booster pump, then the booster pump into the system. The blue hose is the flush hose. I open that valve then turn the water on from the clear tube (which of course is valved). I leave the flush valve open (the blue hose, your red arrow) until my TDS meter reads 7 or below and then I close that valve which now brings my water pressure up to the 75-80 psi and it runs into the di chambers. Only valve that is open of course is the valve from the last chamber of DI into my water barrel.

 

[griss]

That is the flush valve. On the right (white hose) of course that is the water feed line into the booster pump, then the booster pump into the system. The blue hose is the flush hose. I open that valve then turn the water on from the clear tube (which of course is valved). I leave the flush valve open (the blue hose, your red arrow) until my TDS meter reads 7 or below and then I close that valve which now brings my water pressure up to the 75-80 psi and it runs into the di chambers. Only valve that is open of course is the valve from the last chamber of DI into my water barrel.

I think we may be on to something here. Where is your waste water line from the RO membrane? Is it the same as the flush valve line? If so, I think/believe what's happening is, when you close that valve, the pressure builds up in the system because waste water has no where to go. The resulting pressure build up would cause the solenoid to shut the system down.

Essentially, you should have two lines coming out of the RO membrane. One going to the DI cartridges (for product water) and one going to waste/drain. The waste line must remain open for the system to produce water. Where you want your flush valve to be is between the RO membrane and the first DI cartridge...so you can flush TDS creep from the membrane (before sending product water to the DI) but also leaving the waste line open.

So, here's what it would look like in your current setup:
1. Water Source
2. Booster Pump
3. Sediment Filter
4. Carbon filter
5. RO Membrane
6a. Waste Water Line (going to drain)
6b. Product Water Line (going to the DI)
7. T-Fitting
7a. Line to DI
7b. Line Going to Shutoff Valve used as Flush Valve

Hope this makes sense. I have to prepare for a meeting I have in 30 minutes. If I have time after that, I'll try to make a diagram for you. I know I posted one on here several years ago but I can't find it right now.

 

[griss]

Okay, I had a little time before my meeting. Here's a (crude) diagram of what I was trying to put in print in my previous post.

 

[dogstsx]

Okay, I had a little time before my meeting. Here's a (crude) diagram of what I was trying to put in print in my previous post.

View attachment 32404008

That's what I think I am missing is the Waste Line. I remember previous RO systems I had a waste line that I believe I left open when making water. When I was done I would close that valve & the main valve. Now, let me ask you this. Since I am clearly missing this waste line, is ALL the waste water being transferred back into the membrane and or put into the DI I have? Could that be the reasons as to why I'm burning through membranes and resin?

 

[griss]

Now, let me ask you this. Since I am clearly missing this waste line, is ALL the waste water being transferred back into the membrane and or put into the DI I have? Could that be the reasons as to why I'm burning through membranes and resin?

Okay, a couple of things. Yes, the tube I placed a red arrow on, IS your waste line.

So, what I believe is happening is when you close that, it's pushing all water (both product and waste water) through the DI causing it to exhaust rapidly. Also, as I mentioned, closing the waste line shuts down the system due to pressure build up...that's why production slows and then stops.

On the left side of the Membrane housing, there are two output tubes. One is product (filtered water) and the other is waste water. Make sure you have these properly identified with the product water line going to the DI and not the waste going to the DI. Since you bought the initial 4-stage system (sediment, carbon, RO, and DI) new, it should be plumbed correctly. So, that should not be an issue.

So, if you want to flush the membrane before producing water (to flush out TDS creep from the system sitting idle for periods of time, which I highly recommend to save DI resin) here's what we need to do here. This is hard to convey in type (if I was local to you, I'd come over and help in person) but I'll do my best.
1. Find the tube going from your RO Membrane housing to your first DI cartridge.
1a. We're likely going to need to replace that tubing with a longer tube so remove that tubing.
2. You'll want to purchase some 1/4" RO Tubing
3. You'll also want to purchase two John Guest Fittings: One 1/4" T-Fitting and one 1/4" Shutoff Valve
4. Place one end of your new/longer tubing into the membrane housing and the other into the input of the DI cartridge.
4a. Determine length based on not kinking the tubing and to fit your needs.
5. Cut the tubing in the middle and put both ends (one coming from the RO and one going to the DI) into the T-Fitting .
6. Push more (new section of) tubing into the final (output) of the T-Fitting and run this to your drain.
7. Somewhere in the tubing going to the drain, install the shutoff valve.

It should look (loosely) like this.

Hope that all makes sense.

 

[griss]

Another thing you might want to think about, is putting another T-fitting and between your carbon cannister and RO membrane with a shutoff valve going to your drain. That way, when you replace your carbon cartridge, you can flush the carbon cartridge to remove loose carbon so it doesn't get caught in your RO membrane and shorten its life.

 

[griss]

Just for my own knowledge, am I doing it right by opening the flush valve when starting the system and watching the TDS meter go from 100 or 80ppm down to 7-3ppm then I close the flush valve and let the water run into the DI?

I see I didn’t directly answer this. Yes, once you get the flush valve installed like I posted above, flush the membrane before making water to remove TDS creep and keep it from blowing through your DI resin.

 

[dogstsx]

Here are more pictures if it helps. I did rearrange the OUT TDS meter to straight forward rather then from the side as I previous had it.

 

[griss]

For clarification, is the valve indicated below by the yellow arrow the one you are closing after TDS drops? If so, you're closing the waste line and the resulting pressure build up is what is shutting the system off. So again, if that's the case, you need to leave this valve open when you're producing water.

I'm trying to use the pictures and videos on AquaticLife's website to try to decipher this. Bare with me here, as I mentioned, I'm a very linear thinker and trying to follow my thoughts through this and (hopefully) clearly explain.
1. The purple arrow in the water coming into membrane from the carbon block.
2. The yellow arrow is the waste water coming out of the membrane.
3. The green arrow is the flush valve you can use to flush your membrane.

So, that all looks good to me. And, now that I can see there is a flush valve, there's no need to make any modification IMO. In other words, to flush the membrane to remove TDS creep from the membrane housing, all you need to do is open the valve indicated by the green arrow and flush until TDS drops coming out of the RO membrane.

If you haven't seen it, there's a pretty good video on AquaticLife's YouTube site.

@Vinny Kreyling @wvned @kharmaguru Any thoughts here?

 

[dogstsx]

For clarification, is the valve indicated below by the yellow arrow the one you are closing after TDS drops? If so, you're closing the waste line and the resulting pressure build up is what is shutting the system off. So again, if that's the case, you need to leave this valve open when you're producing water.
View attachment 32404057

I'm trying to use the pictures and videos on AquaticLife's website to try to decipher this. Bare with me here, as I mentioned, I'm a very linear thinker and trying to follow my thoughts through this and (hopefully) clearly explain.
1. The purple arrow in the water coming into membrane from the carbon block.
2. The yellow arrow is the waste water coming out of the membrane.
3. The green arrow is the flush valve you can use to flush your membrane.

View attachment 32404055
View attachment 32404056

So, that all looks good to me. And, now that I can see there is a flush valve, there's no need to make any modification IMO. In other words, to flush the membrane to remove TDS creep from the membrane housing, all you need to do is open the valve indicated by the green arrow and flush until TDS drops coming out of the RO membrane.

If you haven't seen it, there's a pretty good video on AquaticLife's YouTube site.

@Vinny Kreyling @wvned @kharmaguru Any thoughts here?

YES, I open the blue flush valve (yellow arrow) until the TDS reads about 7ppm or lower and then I close it. When I open that valve the water pressure drops a lot (I would have to do it again to remember the pressure). When I close it, the water pressure jumps up to about 75psi.

 

[dogstsx]

Please be patient as I'm trying to figure this out So the flush valve (green arrow) is always open it looks like. Should that valve only be open when I am flushing the membrane then closed and the waste water valve (yellow arrow) be open when I am making water?