Need opinions please...tank turning into an SPS graveyard

[JWags911SC]

I'm seriously starting to think about shutting down a 40 Breeder tank that I have had up and running for 6 months because I keep losing my favorite SPS frags to RTN/STN. I need some opinions on whether I am doing something wrong that is leading to the tissue loss that I am seeing in my Acros, everything else seems to be healthy with extended polyps, but every time I pick up an SPS frag it starts to recede at the base or in a shaded side and lose all of its tissue. The most recent occurred last night, when I noticed an SPS was losing its tissue on the underside of where I had it mounted (where the T5's were not penetrating). I tried to apply CA to the frag, but I think it is too late since I looked at it this morning and it was continuing to lose tissue.

I have a Nova Extreme Pro 6 bulb fixture over a 40 Breeder tank and the light is 6-7" over the surface. I'm running two ATI Blue Plus bulbs from 10 AM -12 noon, then switching to four bulbs - 2 ATI Blue Plus, 1 ATI Coral Plus, and 1 Giesemann Actinic Plus from 12-4PM, then back to the two ATI Blue Plus bulbs from 4PM-6PM. The lights are on timers and seem to be functioning properly. The light is configured as follows:

Front
ATI Blue Plus - Plug 1 10-12, 3-6
ATI Blue Plus - Plug 2 12-3
ATI Blue Plus - Plug 2 12-3
ATI GE Daylight - Plug 2 12-3
ATI Blue Plus - Plug 1 10-12, 3-6
Giesemann Actinic Plus Plug 2 12-3
Back

I also had an SPS frag (described to me as an ORA Red Planet when I bought, but later was advised it may have been a wild colony) that slowly receded at the base, then lost almost all of its tissue within a week. The previous month I lost what I was told was an ORA Hawkins in a similar manner, the Hawkins (or wild colony) RTN/STN'd from the inside trunk out to the tips in less than two weeks. Finally, I lost a Millepora frag that I picked up at a frag swap in a very similar manner, with tissue gradually becoming thinner, then falling off in less than a couple weeks.

Here are my current parameters:

Calcium 420
Alk 8.9 dKh
Mag 1330
Amm 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates - currently 4 ppm, had been less than 1 ppm from vodka dosing regimen (I dosed daily strictly and slowly in the sump but stopped in the month of May after losing two Acro frags to RTN/STN)
Temp 79-82 deg - this is room temp right now as all heat rises to the room where I have the tank currently, my heater is barely on at all right now and the tank is remaining at an almost constant 82 degrees all day
PH 8.0-8.1

I'm hoping to learn if I've got problems with my water that I am just not seeing or if my lighting is either too weak (should I use all bulbs during most of the day instead of the four) or too close to the surface (raise light further or try LED's). I do weekly water changes and test every couple of days and all params seem to remain pretty stable.

I have several Monti Cap frags that are doing well, are placed medium to high in the tank on rockwork and a Duncan frag that I have placed on the sandbed until I can find a good spot low in the tank with less flow, they seem to be doing fine although one Monti Cap has turned brownish from a greenish hue and the Red Monti Cap is no longer a lighter red but more of a deep brownish red in coloration.

All comments and questions are welcome

 

[scottwhitson]

What is your ALK swinging to between water changes? I would test the water a few hours after a water change and then right before you do another one and see if your ALK is changing much.

 

[CHSUB]

what is po4? how many fish?

 

[cugly]

I think your temp is to high

 

[JWags911SC]

what is po4? how many fish?

I have very light livestock right now b/c I am cycling a QT system, I have a tank-bred Ocellaris Clown and a Moyers Red Dragonet that I have had for around 3 months. I have multiple species of pods and many of them all over glass and substrate, including Tisbe bottom dwellers. The rest is snails and four blue-leg crabs. I decided to get rid of the crabs b/c they were killing off my snails

I think your temp is to high

I read some opinions that corals can take 82, but this has been a concern b/c I started the tank at right around 76-77 degrees but can't afford a chiller. I may move it into the basement where it remains a constant 68 and let my heater work. We bought a new window A/C unit just last night to try to bring the temp down to around the 76-77 constantly, time will tell if reducing the temp works

What is your ALK swinging to between water changes? I would test the water a few hours after a water change and then right before you do another one and see if your ALK is changing much.

My Alk pretty much remains at 9.1 before and after a water change, I have been trying to let it fall naturally to between 7-8, but so far it hasn't reached NSW levels. I am using Seachem Salinity and have since I started the tank. I change about around 5 gallons a week.

 

[Stlouphil]

Your parameters don't look that bad, but surely something is up. I have temperature swings from 78 - 83 and SPS do fine. I vote for either ALK swings or possibly salinity problems. I did not see where you stated SG. How do you determine SG? Refractometer? Is it calibrated? There is something wrong somewhere.

 

[JWags911SC]

Your parameters don't look that bad, but surely something is up. I have temperature swings from 78 - 83 and SPS do fine. I vote for either ALK swings or possibly salinity problems. I did not see where you stated SG. How do you determine SG? Refractometer? Is it calibrated? There is something wrong somewhere.

Sorry, that should have been in my OP. I measure salinity at 1.025-1.026 every other day with a refractometer that I calibrate with fluid it came with at 0 ppm about once a week. I have very rarely had to adjust, but it does occasionally go up or down one line on the scale. I don't believe salinity is the issue, because I have an auto top off, JBJ, and I top off with RODI water that I test before I fill a 5 gallon top off jug with and it always reads 0 ppm. I change my filters once every three months, both the sediment, two carbon blocks and the color changing DI. I have to refill the top off jug once every three days or so and it is a standard one previously used as a drinking water dispenser, which has been thoroughly rinsed with white vinegar and RODI water before it's first use.

I am pretty thorough when it comes to my water change and top off water testing, which is why I suspected my lighting or that my Alk was a little high.

Could I just not be giving the corals enough of a photoperiod or enough PAR to grow and it is leading to the RTN/STN?

One other thing that could have started the corals to RTN is vodka dosing. I started vodka dosing and followed the guidelines that I found on RC very precisely, my Nitrates were reading immeasurable, the water was very clear and my skimmer was pulling in nasty stuff when my first coral started to RTN. A week later, I followed a recommendation from a poster here to stop vodka dosing. It was about a week later that the rest of my losses piled up, one after the other, and the tank hasn't looked as good ever since. The only reason I began the vodka dosing was that I could not get my Nitrates below 5 ppm, even with weekly water changes. Thinking back on everything that I did, The one change I would make today if I were to start fresh would be not to use a three inch sand bed. I bought three bags of Tropic Eden Mini Flakes and used two and a half of them in the display. That is 75 pounds of sand in my 40 Breeder, which is likely too much, but would this lead to RTN/STN?

By the way, the bulbs are all new in the last four months, so I can't attribute it to old bulbs.

 

[Stlouphil]

I run biopellets as a carbon source and I'm very pleased with the way they keep nutrients down. However, carbon dosing causes SPS to very sensitive to higher ALK levels. When carbon dosing it suggested that you keep ALK around the levels found in NSW. I have not experienced RTN/STN, but I have developed burt tips with ALK above 9.

 

[JWags911SC]

I run biopellets as a carbon source and I'm very pleased with the way they keep nutrients down. However, carbon dosing causes SPS to very sensitive to higher ALK levels. When carbon dosing it suggested that you keep ALK around the levels found in NSW. I have not experienced RTN/STN, but I have developed burt tips with ALK above 9.

Someone else in the local club suggested that a Alk level higher than NSW levels combined with my previous vodka dosing could have contributed to my losses.

I have considered the use of bio-pellets but have read a lot of positives and negatives about their use. Do you feel I should consider them for a tank as small as a 40 Breeder, and if so, how much should I start out with? I have a spare biopellet reactor that I can run in line with my carbon if this will help keep my nutrients down without causing more problems than it solves.

I ramped up my lighting schedule this week and am now running the two additional T5 bulbs on Plug 1 for the entire photoperiod instead of switching them off between 12 PM and 3 PM. I'm hoping that leaving them at this setting will provide better usable PAR throughout the day to my Acros.

 

[JWags911SC]

what is po4? how many fish?

My RS Phosphate Pro test kit is still reading .08 ppm, which is kind of odd considering that I always get the same reading from this kit every time I test the water. I have PM'd the manufacturer to find out if maybe I have a bad bottle of reagents.

 

[JWags911SC]

I think your temp is to high

Since we installed a window A/C unit this week, the tank has slowly dropped back to 78 +-.3 degrees constant. I think I will keep it here and see if things improve any.

 

[gdemos]

With changes in your carbon dosing, sandbed, etc I'd focus on stabilizing the parameters first and foremost. WRT lighting I'd say that is the last thing to change if at all. I'd think about keeping less light (decrease photo period, raise fixture) and try to let things heal. Only then (let things brown) would I consider changing the light. Are these frags have you dipped? Isolate any changes (dosing, sand, etc) keep them subtle only one change at a time and test along the way without aggressively chasing numbers. I would not recommend moving the corals around keep them in the same spot same direction. Lastly consider your flow. Without knowing what is wild/aquacultured the wild pieces have greater uncertainty. My .02. Keep posting

 

[cugly]

Since we installed a window A/C unit this week, the tank has slowly dropped back to 78 +-.3 degrees constant. I think I will keep it here and see if things improve any.

That's good now just make sure everything else is stable specially your alkalinity. .if all that is ok and it still happens then there is something else going on just keep doing a process of elimination one at a time till you figure out the cause ..patience is key...goodluck happy reefing

 

[cugly]

with changes in your carbon dosing, sandbed, etc i'd focus on stabilizing the parameters first and foremost. Wrt lighting i'd say that is the last thing to change if at all. I'd think about keeping less light (decrease photo period, raise fixture) and try to let things heal. Only then (let things brown) would i consider changing the light. Are these frags have you dipped? Isolate any changes (dosing, sand, etc) keep them subtle only one change at a time and test along the way without aggressively chasing numbers. I would not recommend moving the corals around keep them in the same spot same direction. Lastly consider your flow. Without knowing what is wild/aquacultured the wild pieces have greater uncertainty. My .02. Keep posting

+1

 

[swk]

Any signs of pests of any kind?

 

[lynchmob3000]

Run a 10 hour photo period with a few hours of blues in the morning and at night. In the middle run all bulbs for at least 4 hours. If low lighting is the issue then it should be ok. Might be low lighting not allowing the tank to produce enough waste for the sps. Who knows but I would start with that and figuring out if your salt level is correct. Take your refractor to the lfs and have them calibrate it. Take your water and have them test it also just cause.

 

[lynchmob3000]

How often do you clean the glass of algae?

 

[heneee1]

This sounds very like the problems a lot lf us in the uk seem to be having at the moment. Experienced reefers loosing just acros in the same manner. I'm in the same boat at the moment acros STN from the base whilst the tips show good colour continue to grow and show polyp extension. The link below gives an idea, http://www.internationalreefers.com/index.php?showtopic=9494

 

[JWags911SC]

Any signs of pests of any kind?

No signs of AEFW or pests of any other kind. I dip my new frags for 5 minutes in the TLF coral cleaner product, the name escapes me at the moment. I know it is not Bayer Advanced product that some use, but this is what I bought so I want to use it

Run a 10 hour photo period with a few hours of blues in the morning and at night. In the middle run all bulbs for at least 4 hours. If low lighting is the issue then it should be ok. Might be low lighting not allowing the tank to produce enough waste for the sps. Who knows but I would start with that and figuring out if your salt level is correct. Take your refractor to the lfs and have them calibrate it. Take your water and have them test it also just cause.

I believe my salinity is on the mark, though, I will double check my calibration with the LFS this Saturday and may purchase a backup refractometer to compare the two readings.

Lack of waste products may be an issue with only two fish, so I am overfeeding the tank slightly, but not excessively so. I am cycling a QT system for my next fish, not wanting to introduce Ich into the tank. I would like to get a Royal Gramma, Dwarf Angel or a Fairy Wrasse as my next fish

How often do you clean the glass of algae?

My glass has a light green algae tint to it, but I clean it every few days with a mag scraper.

I did have a GHA issue about three months ago that took a couple weeks to get control of by pulling it out of the sandbed and scraping off the glass every other day, but this has now been under control for the past couple of months.

My GHA issue was another reason I started the vodka dosing regimen, as water change after water change was not bringing down my Nitrates or Phosphates measureably. I wondered at the time and still wonder if the depth of my sandbed (about 2.5 to 3 inches) was partly to blame for fueling my GHA. I have a light dusting of algae growth on my newest dry rock, but nothing to compare to the GHA outbreak that subsided some time ago.

I should mention that I did let my Marco rock cure in heated saltwater, with occasional water changes, for around two months before I started up the tank and was not measuring any Phosphates before I added it to the display, so I don't think I can point to the rock as the source of my GHA.

 

[lynchmob3000]

I'd be willing to bet your sg is high. Maybe 2 points