need some help - cycling tank

[FANCLAN]

Well here goes,

I have just finshed setting up my 120gl tank with 40gl refugium.

started my cycle last weekend and water quality is all good.

Friend seeded bio from his system and bought live sand and rock to get it all going.

added 3 mollies to keep adding to the bio-load.

Never saw a amonia spike, only up to .5 then dropped

tirtes came up to .25 then dropped to 0

trates have yet to come up from 0

ph has been constant 8.3

sg is 1.022 @ 78.5 f

bought some damsel on day 7 to help promote the cycle

after drip acc and putting into main tank found 2 of them to have a single white spot on the middle of the trailling edge of there tail fin....MY FEAR IS ICH!!!

ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO PROCEED?

WILL I NEED TO TREAT MY WHOLE TANK OR WORSE START OVER?

HELP!!!! PLEASE.

 

[hmello@bermexin]

If it is ICH you have to let the tank sit fallow for at least 6 weeks minimum. Search wetwebmedia.com for details.

 

[brandonst878]

My advice is get the damsels and mollies out and use a dead shrimp from the grocery for the cycle. You will regret having the overly agressive damsels later and will be very irritated when you have to move all of your rock work to catch the slippery SOB's. Just my two cents.

 

[kaihonu82]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9817004#post9817004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brandonst878
My advice is get the damsels and mollies out and use a dead shrimp from the grocery for the cycle. You will regret having the overly agressive damsels later and will be very irritated when you have to move all of your rock work to catch the slippery SOB's. Just my two cents.

I second this. speaking from experience, you do not want an overly agressive damsel in your tank amidst all your rockwork. very very difficult to get out.

just a side note, i'd also bump up the SG to ~1.025, might as well do that before your tank is ready for other fish.

good luck fighting the ich!

 

[wizzbane15]

You have probably seen and heard that ICH is the worst thing ever. However, virtually every tank has ICH and once it is introduced, it can't be removed without replacing everything, especially the sand. the trick is to limit its effects. Since you have nothing in there, hit it hard now with chemicals. Ruby Reef's Kick Ich or Hydroplex have worked well for me.

You will continually battle this, so get used to it. Make sure your temp is staying stable too.

 

[wizzbane15]

I second the getting rid of the damsels too. If you want small fish to help cycle, get chromis instead.

damsesl become the biggest headache down the road.

 

[FANCLAN]

THANK YOU

THANK YOU

THANK YOU ALL.

TIME TO GO KICK KID AT LFS @#$#$%

JUST THE FIRST BUMP IN THE ROAD OF THIS OBSESSION WE ALL LOVE.

HEHEHE

FANCLAN

 

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9817201#post9817201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wizzbane15
virtually every tank has ICH and once it is introduced, it can't be removed without replacing everything

First time I've heard this claimed. Any links to references so I can check it out? I'm under the impression that Ich requires a host to live. Therefore leaving a tank fallow long enough will eventually eradicate the parasites. Havn't seen ich in my tank for almost 2 years now.

 

[wizzbane15]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

this talks about Ich and the type of organism. The biological structure of Ich will spark debate as to whether it can be completely removed from a system. I am in the opinion that it can't since the organism can form cyst's. cyst's are an evolutionary measure used by many organisms, including viruses, that allow for simple organisms to survive for long periods of time without a host. Is it impossible to completely remove Ich, no. Is it improbable, yes.

 

[papagimp]

Just cause an organism can form cysts, doesn't mean it will. But I do see what you're saying and that link was more than infomative. Thanks for that. Definatly something to bare in mind when buying up used tanks, liverock/sand, and even to those that have had previous ich outbreaks. I didn't see anything at first glance about conditions required for cysts to be formed or water quality neccessary for hatching of those cysts. Any thoughts?

 

[Jocko]

Yeah forget the idea of adding things to promote a cycle. The cycle means your tank's bacteria population is reaching equalibrium with the bioload of your tank. So all you need to do is slowly add the things you actually want in your tank. Why unnecessarily boost the bacteria population way up just to have it plummet when you remove the artifical source of food?

You've got the LR and LS and it sounds like you're cycled since your levels are zero. That's definitely a good start. If you have ich, then you need to leave the tank free of fish for 6 weeks to interupt it's standard life cycle. Once you're there, just slowly start adding things. Not sure if you have cleanup crew yet. That would be my first step. If you don't that would give you something you could add during the 6 weeks so you don't get too bored! Basically if you add a couple things at a time and wait a week or 2, that lets the bacteria population play catchup without adding too much bioload at once. The goal here is simply to keep the levels at 0 as you populate your tank.

Your best bet it to either find a trustworth LFS that you know QTs and treats their incoming livestock or, better yet, get a simple QT setup where you can keep incoming fish in a copper treatment for a couple of weeks before introducing them to your tank. The other benefit of having your own QT is it would give you someplace to put your mollies and damsel.

For the record, I have a yellow tail damsel and he's actually very social with the other fish. But YMMV.

 

[wizzbane15]

I'm not sure if there are any definate parameters that I know of or have heard of for Ich to form long term cyst's and/or hatching out. Since Ich primarily lives in sand and rock when not attached to fish, the odds are really good that your new system has Ich. No biggie.

Any one of the items you put in your tank to start came with some form of Ich spore or cyst. In reality, it's probably pretty hard not to get anything, including fish, for your tank at any time that carries Ich. You can QT new things to the tank to prevent them from hving Ich, but the initial problem is that Ich is still present.
I've even heard that all fish have Ich, but its really a question of whether they exhibit signs of it. I'm not sure if I completely agree with this, but...

IMO, Ich gets a pretty bad rap as being this nasty of the nasty kinda rep. I maintain that it is a process of control rather than elimination.