Need some help with PH Randy

1SickReefer

1SickReefer

New member
Hi randy,

I have had a PH problem for some time now, I was testing with a regent test and getting what looked like 8.0 +. I just got an ACIII a fews ago with 2 PH probes. 7.8 - 7.9 during the night and 7.9 - 8.0 during the day. I have read through your low PH article. I tried running an air line from outside to my skimmer intake but it killed the foam. Opening a window is not an option yet since it is still cold. I took a glass of tank water outside and let it sit for an hour and the PH rose to 8.1 but the water was very cold and this could be throwing the reading of the AC of correct? so this tells me I have excess Co2 in my house due to winter and the house being closed up.

I baked some baking soda tonight and I have been dosing that to the tank at a 1/2 tbs at a time, started at 7.9 now at 8.1 goona leave it like that till tomorrrow and see where the lights take it too.

I tested my alk and it is up to 14 DKH / 5ml it was at 3.5ml / 9 - 10 DKH before i started the baked baking soda. Should I be worried or just keep adding till i reach my target PH of 8.2 - 8. 3 ?

I have been looking at kalk reactors, I use a float valve connected to my rodi to top off the sump automatically. Can I put a kalk reactor inline with that? and dose lime water? I think you say lime water is the prefered way to deal with a low PH issue correct?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks
Jbird
 
For the moment, I'd stop adding any of the baking soda. That could cause problems by forcing alkalinity too high.
 
I agree that I'd stop the baking soda.

I think you say lime water is the prefered way to deal with a low PH issue correct?

Yes, that or more aeration. Did you try the indoor aeration test?

I use a float valve connected to my rodi to top off the sump automatically. Can I put a kalk reactor inline with that? and dose lime water?

Maybe, it depends on the setup. I prefer delivery from a reservoir of limewater. Can you describe your top off system?
 
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Thanks guys,

I did the 'outdoor' aeration' test, I'll have to reread your artilce on how to do the indoor test.

My auto top off is basic as could be. RODI unit in basement to a JG spliiter, 1 line goes to a 32g rodi holding tank, the other goes to the tank to a ebay float valve in the sump.

the 32g rodi container is on a stand above another 32g that I mix my salt in.

I had an idea to get another 32g brute and fill that with rodi/kalk and use a mag 12/18 to get it up to my sump, I would install float 'switches' in sump from my ACIII to tell the pump to come on or off. than I think I have read that you do not want to add too much at once a drip is better. if I had the 32g i would use a mag12 or so to get it upstairs. it would add about a gallon or more at a time. too much right?

I got the PH up to 8.12 last night with soda like i said above, this morning is is back down to 7.98.

Will kalk drive up my ALK also? I have been using B-ionic thus far to maintain my levels.

Thanks for the help.
 
A gallon at once in a 120 is too much yes. I deliver limewater 24/7 using a slow Reef Filler pump and a float switch in my sump. It is delivered from an 88 gallon reservoir made from 2 x 44 gallon Rubbermaid Brute trash cans.

Limewater will often be able to maintain alkalinity and calcium, except in high demand SPS systems, but it almost never raises alkalinity too high before the pH gets too high.
 
I have always had the same problem with low ph.I to can't leave the windows open, to cold in winter and I am never home during the day.I am using kalk and found its the best way to raise ph.I bought the tunze osmolator with the calcium dispencer.My ph has gone from 7.98 to 8.2-8.3 you may want to try a deltec kalk stirrer with a ph controller.I find the tunze works well but you have to add kalk every 3 days depending on evaporation.I use 5 gal pale lasts me 3 to 4 days.my ph drops to around 8 around the time that the 5 gals is finished but I just fill container and add more kalk.I think the deltec reactor stirs the kalk and adds more limewater but I am not sure if you can use it without a ph controller.At least with controller monitor tells unit when to dose(I am assumeing since I never owned one)
 
what calibration solution brand did you use on your pH probes? After reading Randy's article I always ask now and many times it seems to be a calibration solution issue.
 
DrBDC, been using the single packs of pinpoint 7 and 10. I can take my probe take a packet at 77deg and put my probe in it and it reads 7 or 10 whichever it is in.

Randy, Ok i am getting the 1000-1 reef filler pump. I am going to get another brute tcan and use that for my kalk solution. I am also going to get a float switch to use with my ACIII. Do you rec 1 or 2 switches? like one high one low? or is one enough. I can mount the reef filler on the wall right behind the new brute. I am way less that 200ft from the tank so I should be g2g.

I am going to leave the CA reactor offline (never was online) since I dont have a high calcium demand, about 6 small sps frags, 5 or so adult colonies of different LPS a 6 inch patch of GSP. I am thinking limewater will provide everything I need for quite some time.

Randy, my friend, thank you for taking the time to post and help out. I truly appreciate it I will let you know how my new reef filler and limewater top off does with my PH. How much kalk you think i should start with if say I have 1.5 - 2g of evap a day and got a 40g brute.

http://www.jcaquatics.com/page19.html

Regards,
Jason
 
Jbird,

I was having the same low pH issue on my SPS tank. Originally had a setup similar to Randy's suggestion (mixing kalk in a 20 gal rubbermaid with a Litermeter dosing pump). I used a Maxijet 400 on a timer to mix the solution for about 15 mins every 12 hours. The setup worked but had a few drawbacks.

1. My topoff water sump is in a closet. If you use this setup, you will need to empty and clean the sump every once and a while (the undissolved junk that accumulates in the bottom of the topoff sump has some potentially toxic nasties that you don't want dosing in your tank - see Randy's article on Kalk). Empting the closet every couple months became a major hassle. 2. Kalk powder is light and airey. I had a hard time putting the kalk in the topoff sump w/o getting a face full of kalk (not a good idea). 3. The kalkwasser topoff water tended to gunk up my maxijet and the litermeter pump.

I've since changed the system. I now leave my topoff water clean and clear. I'm using a reconditioned Sentry pump with the level sensor located in my sump for fresh water topoff control only. I have my litermeter, using the same fresh water reservoir, that runs to a PM kalk reactor. It was originally setup on a timer for night only dosing but now I run 24/7. I do NOT dose enough to meet evaporation req's on the tank. This way I limit the amount of kalk to the demands of the tank and don't have to worry about seasonal fluctuations affecting evaporation and subsequently, the amount of kalk dosing in the tank. The PM reactor has a MJ400 for mixing the kalk. I only run that about 30 mins / day, leaving a clear kalk at the top of the reactor to dose into the sump of the reef system. I still need to clean the kalk reactor every few months, but its easier than cleaning the fresh water sump. I now only have 1 pump to clean (the MJ400 on the reactor), instead of 2.

Hope this helps. Either system will work, just a matter of preference.
 
Zippie, Thanks for the info, I actually thought about a kalk reactor I like the way you have your setup. Randy's sounded nice and easy, my kalk container would be in my basement in the open and easy to work on.

So you have a seperate pump that feeds pure top off water on a float switch to your sump, than you have a Kalk reactor feed with a LMIII from the same fresh water res. If your sentry pump keeps the water level fine in the sump, i take it you dont add very much kalk solution?

DrDbc, that would be for randys way right, is that mix once a day or once total until you need to add more kalk?

Thanks for the help guys,
 
You just do an initial mix of the water and then use it until it runs out. If you keep mixing it, it will lose potency. I use a 32 gal. brute container with a peristaltic pump myself and I can get about 10 days out of a container give or take. I fill the can, dump in 1 1/4 cups kalk, stir ut up with a big piece of 1/2 pvc pipe, put the lid on and let it run. Now that doesn't apply if you are using a kalk reactor. I believe those have to be stirred but I've never used one so if you go with a reactor I can't help.
 
I am also going to get a float switch to use with my ACIII. Do you rec 1 or 2 switches?

I use two, but only 1 for the limewater. The other shuts down the main return pump if the water gets low (such as if there is a leak somewhere).

Also, would I need some type of pump in the brute can to mix the limewater occ. if so how freq?

I recommend only stirring it when you first dissolve it. Then let it sit foe however long it takes to run down. Then stir again when you refill it. I use a powerhead.
 
Randy,

Ok I aquired a IKS dosing pump for a good price. will be here tomorrow. I am going to start your way with a 32g in the basement and add kalk to that. about 1 1/4 cups to start.

So far I gathered that I add the kalk, stir and let it be till it runs out. Do i let the solution drip 24/7 to match evap or put it on my contoller to get to my target PH? and use another float switch to keep my level good in sump?

Where can I get the kalk you use?

sorry for all the ?'s just want to set it up the first time correctly. do you use regular 1/4" rodi line for your long runs from kalk to tank?
 
Do i let the solution drip 24/7 to match evap or put it on my contoller to get to my target PH?

I match it to evaporation 24/7, but on some days I add freshwater manually as well to keep the pH from spiking when evaporation gets high on very cold dry winter days.

Where can I get the kalk you use?

We (Boston Reefers) got it in a group buy. It isn't easy to get as an individual, as far as I know. Anyone know of a good place?

do you use regular 1/4" rodi line for your long runs from kalk to tank?


Bigger, but I forget the exact size. Maybe 3/8".
 
Go to Mississippi Lime company homepage and then you can pick by state where the distributors are. Call and tell them you are having a hard time finding the product and give them the number for it. Ask who orders it from them so you can go buy it retail. Even retail is only about 12-15 a 50# bag. They will either tell you where or just let you come get it. Be really friendly on the phone and try to convey the sound of desperation at not finding their product. There are 2 in St. Louis, one didn't seem to even have a clue and the other was very friendly and let me go to their place to get it.
 
very good DrBDC i will give that a try. Thank You

Randy, I think I am gtg thanks. I will take all your info and try to get my system up and running and try not to fry everything in the process :D
 
DrBDC, I found one in Maryland. I am goona try to give them a call
What kinda of material am I looking for?

CALCIUM CARBONATE (Limestone)
CALCIUM OXIDE (Quicklime)
CALCIUM HYDROXIDE (Hydrated Lime)
PRECIPITATED CALCIUM CARBONATE (PCC)
OTHER CALCIUM PRODUCTS

PRODUCT DISTRIBUTORS
Dunleary Incorporated
600 Fairmount Ave.
Towson, MD 21286
800/828-1959
 
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