New 5074 Calcuim Dispenser installed.

[mcarroll]

I've got a few questions that will get asked along the way...

Background:
I'm currently dosing mightily every day. (~1.5 tsp each of Brightwell Elemental and Alkalin 8.3-P, every day...their "better" two-part.)

Goal:
I'm hoping the 5074 can alleviate my daily dosing, but not sure how much (at max) this can dose and how quickly I can ramp up to that amount. Thoughts on this?

I started it up a few nights ago on the recommended small size dose for my size system: 10 grams, or about 2 teaspoons.

I think it says in the instructions that 20 grams is the maximum dose for the canister. (Beyond that, parallel canisters would be needed.)

Given my current dosage levels and my goals, should I jump to 20 grams in the next fill cycle?


Of course there are more details.

:reading:

I'm running this off a Tom Aqualifter pump that is mounted about 12" above the cannister. The net result is a very low flow, at least compared to how that pump ran before. A mere trickle.

In the cannister I can see that the flow is disturbing an area of kalk the size of a quarter or so, but it's not stirring the entire contents of the bottom. Is this alright?

In the near term (but still at added expense) I could run another Aqualifter in series with the one I have to boost flow. I'd guess this should get flow close to the pump's rated ability of 3 gph. Would this be advised/suggested? (More?)

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

-Matt

 

[mcarroll]

For reference, here's a pic of the installation:

You can make out the patch in the kalk that's being hit with the flow.

 

[rvitko]

This dispenser is made exclusively for use with the osmolator and the included osmolator pump which does about 25gph. I think the pump is just too weak to really mix the kalkwasser well. Kalkwasser is a very weak supplement of calcium, it adds some but could not be expected to be a full replacement for calcium dosing, its main advantage is it binds free CO2 and PO4 and raises alkalinity. Kalkwasser largely is self defeating when you try to use at a calcium supplement, in large doses it raises pH and this causes calcium to precipitate so you actually lose calcium when you add too much. It will always need to be used in combination with a calcium reactor or 2 part in all but the lowest demand systems, which would be pretty much a system where the only calcium demand was from coralline algae. I don't see any feasible way to boost the output to the point it would supplement all other additives and I don't think multiples or multiple pumps would be a worthwhile investment. The best thing to do would be to connect it to an osmolator and as far as the dosage I would need to know the size of the aquarium.

 

[mcarroll]

I know I'm using it a bit outside of scope, but baby steps is the name of the game (for me) and it seemed a good bet that I could get something good out of it.

I have yet to measure the effluent from it to see how much Ca or Alk I'm getting out of it, so not sure to what extent it's working (if at all) so far. As expected, I have noticed no difference in tests of the tank water or need for supplement, for what it's worth.

It's a 38 gallon tank and about 50 gallons for the total system.

-Matt

 

[rvitko]

I am sure it is working, but it just won't add very much calcium, the main impact on alkalinity is from the binding of free CO2. Kalkwasser is a useful additive, I just wouldn't expect it to fulfill that much of your calcium demand.

 

[mcarroll]

I finally took a sample of the ATO's output (just after it completed a cycle, I ran the ATO manuall for a few more seconds) and measured with Salifert test kits: (tell me if these are meaningful....I know the tests are designed to work in saltwater, not limewater)

pH: Off the chart. Kit goes to 8.6 as blue. It was way way bluer than blue with this sample.
Ca: 100 ppm
Alk: 1.47 meq/L

Do those numbers sound about right? This is the end of the 2nd fill of the ATO bucket with RO water (about 1 gal left), but still the original 10 gram charge of kalk, BTW.

Also, would you recommend going ahead and charging it with 20 grams of kalk next time?

Thanks!
-Matt

P.S. As predicted, I'm still dosing about 100 mL each of Calcium Chloride and Buffer to keep the tank's Ca and Alk numbers in range. It's hard to say for sure in the short term, but I think I've seen a pretty strong upswing in coral and coraline growth. Considering I've not had to increase my manual dosing, this is good!

 

[rvitko]

Kalkwasser typically has a pH of almost 11 so it is very high. That does sound correct though, how big is the top off bucket volume, 5gal? If it is 5gals, I might try 4 teaspoons every fill. Typically 1/2 tsp will be used per gallon and there is an insoluble precipitate that accumulates and you do want to rinse this out monthly.

 

[mcarroll]

Yes, 5 Gal. I'll try that and see if I get any different results in the output. (And hopefully a better dissolve rate per charge?)

Can I assume that testing the 5074's discharge water for Ca, Alk and/or pH (as above) would be a good way to double check if the current kalk charge is still soluble and working?

Thanks as always! I'm digging this product so far. Very simply, yet effective at what it does....even under non-ideal circumstances.

-Matt

 

[rvitko]

Yes, you could check it that way, but it would be worth getting a baseline of a fresh charge to go by. You might also look into adding vinegar to the water, this would allow slightly more kalk to be dissolved. Randy Holmes Farley has discussed this at length in the Reef Chemistry forum.

 

[mcarroll]

I'd read just a little on vinegar use and even have some on hand ready to use, but haven't gotten round to the reading yet.

With the 5074 in the mix does that change where the vinegar gets added?

I'd presume it would go in the RO water reservoir to be mixed in the 5074 only when the ATO kicks on. (Vs. pre-dissolving the kalk in the vinegar directly and then adding the Vinegar+Kalk to the 5074 during loading.)

Back in '04, another guy did it the other way though.

Which would you recommend?

-Matt

 

[rvitko]

I would add it to the water, this will be pumped through the kalk anyway and have the same effect.

 

[mcarroll]

After aggregating a couple more sources, I ended up with a formulation of:

• 5 gallons fresh RO in the reservoir
• 225 mL (~1 cup) vineger*
• 15 teaspoons (5 tablespoons) of kalk powder

So after letting it run for several seconds I then sampled and measured the effluent again:

• Alk reads off the charts. >6.71 meq/L
• Calcium reads 210 ppm.

I doubt the validity of the Alk number due to the acid in the water.

It would appear the present formula allows me to get about double the amount of Ca into solution vs. 10 mL Kalk alone. Seems like a lot of kalk powder though (8x the kalk for 2x the Ca??), so we'll see if I get more than one bucket of top-off out of it before recharging is needed.

Thoughts?

-Matt

* For the first bucket I started with 1/4 the amount of vinegar (75 mL) and will work up from there.

 

[rvitko]

In theory this reaction would produce one Calcium Acetate molecule, a water molecule and a hydroxide ion for every reacted Ca (OH)2, these are far more soluble than Ca(OH)2 on its own so you will get a higher Calcium and Alk simply because much more is dissolving, the kalk amount sounds high but this is probably safer, it ensures that little or no free acetic acid is delivered to the tank.

 

[mcarroll]

Good deal then!

Will spot check pH at night a few times with the lousy Salifert kit I have*. I won't really be able to tell what the pH is, but at least know if it's too low (from normal). I haven't seen anything abnormal at my normal testing time right before lights out.

I'm definitely going to have to get a few people hooked up with these reactors....I can't imagine kalk dosing getting much simpler or easier to implement (minimized kalk handling is great!) than this. My gravity dripper (for 2-part) seems like a headache by comparison.

-Matt


P.S. A wider neck on the canister would be welcome. Any tips on getting kalk powder in smoothly? Funnels don't seem to cut it as kalk doesn't flow well. I made do with a small spoon, but that was a lot of scoops.

* I swear by their Ca, Alk, Mg and Sr kits (haven't used any other than what's mentioned here), but was really bummed out by the lack of resolution and hard to match colors of their pH kit.

 

[rvitko]

Next time you are at a good service station that has those courtesy paper funnels for adding oil, take an extra one, they tend to be perfect for the job. Otherwise just roll a paper into a make shift funnel. I also always put a couple fingers in the opening first to displace enough water to make room for the powder.

 

[mcarroll]

Good tip - perhaps paper would allow the powder to flow a little better than plastic! (Plastic, I assume becaues it's slightly porous, always seems to act like it's a little damp.)

Thanks!

-Matt