New clown, please help

[Joeb1983]

First off, hello everyone! I look forward to becoming an active member on this site and to gain valuable information from people who at this point know a whole bunch more than i do... :lol:

Secondly, I have a 36 gallon bow front, eshopps 300 overflow, 75 sump along with their 75 skimmer. I have a marine land power head and cobalt heater in the display tank.

Its been a month after I started with 2 bags of live sand, 50 pounds of live rock and the tank last week finished its cycle along with my cleanup crew.

Yesterday I had my water tested at my local fish store and things where good to go for a fish or two. So me and the wife did what usually people do, and got 2 clown fish. 1 larger than the other for pairing reasons. They both had clear eyes, clean fins/scales and where very active.

I brought them home and acclimated them following the instructions provided to the "T".

At first the obviously where timid and hid, but after 3 hours or so they where two pees in a pod. They seemed to be looking for food so I decided to feed them.

I dropped 6 or so Omega one small marine pellets in and immediately the smaller clown inhaled one down. Shortly after he started to look like he was breathing heavily. Large mouth opening gulps and his gills where flared out like a beta fish does when its mad.

I continued to watch him as he began to become lethargic. The larger clown would brush along side him periodically to get him going again. After what seemed like forever, he spit up pieces of the pellet and slowly became more active.

This morning they are both still alive and actively swimming around, but the smaller one still has the flared/puffed out gills. My local fish store suggested a freshwater dip... My only concern is that hes brand new, small and already had a big day yesterday and I don not want to cause any potential harm or shock.

Anyone have any insight or experience with this? Ive searched; believe me, but it brings up things like genetic disorders, parasites, gill diseases etc... He did not have this problem in the fish store tank, in the bag home, during acclimation or prior to feeding in the main tank.

Please help... :sad2:

 

[Pinniped12]

Keep an eye on him to make sure he is still breathing. Not sure what the dpi would do as it appears to be caused by food. I have had fish do this before and they have looked normal again after they have digested the food. The food should soften in water. Is the clown still breathing as heavily as it was as first?

 

[julie180]

Sounds like he bit off more than he could chew. I agree, dip would probably not accomplish any more than stress. Might get some flakes or frozen mysis and try feeding that instead of pellets

 

[Joeb1983]

Thanks for the replies. He is not gulping wide-mouth like he was yesterday. His mouth movement/ gulp pace seems to be the same as his tank-mate just a open a little wider. His gills are flared outwards like a beta fish does to make himself look bigger.

I do not know.... Maybe he hurt his jaw somehow?..

 

[mabublitz]

if you stick to the pellets i would definitely soak the pellets in water to soak them before feeding. I haven't used pellets too much. I have mostly stuck to the frozen food and some flakes. Even with the frozen I would thaw it in water for a few minutes before throwing it in.

I think your clown should be fine. hopefully its fine. just ate to much.

 

[Crooked Reef]

When I first got my small clowns the pellets were too big for them as well. One actually kept grabbing the same pellet for about 10 minutes and holding it in its mouth for about 2 minutes at a time. Get some flake for them and maybe some frozen my sis or Rod's food. Stay away from the pellets until they are bigger.

 

[Joeb1983]

The pellet was in his mouth for about 3 minutes until he was able to spit it back up in a few pieces. I am assuming like mentioned above it softened up for him to do so... I crushed some up this morning and he ate just fine this time, but his gills are still flared out... Makes his head boxy looking.

 

[Joeb1983]

Here is a pic next to his tank-mate. He obviously is the small one. Think its anything serious from the pictures? Anyone know what it could possibly be? More pics are posted above ^^^

 

[Joeb1983]

He is a lot more active today. Just like the other, but his gills are still the same. Today it looked like he was doing a fast head and gill shake, but it was only a few times.

 

[Sk8r]

Do not get any more fish for a while. Let this play out. Hopefully it's injury and not disease or parasites and he will recover. Do set up a quarantine tank for your next fish. I recommend you feed frozen mysis cubes as something that will go down easier.

 

[Rob0910]

I read on a local forum that small clownfish can develop flared gills. Here is a post quote that a local breeder had put on our local forum (MAAST).


"Hi Mary, no medications for flared gills that I know of.

Best preventative measure is good water quality, enriched rotifers (if you use rotigrow plus you don't have to enrich, if you culture your own phyto or use rotigrow complete then you need to enrich before each feeding) and bad genes can cause it as well (brother and sister parents). Examples of good water quality would be syphoning the larvae tanks out daily (sometimes even twice daily) especially during meta when the fish are laying at the bottom of the tank...detritus build up can be huge problem when the fish are laying in it.

The fish Dean got that had flared gills was from me. It did not have flared gills and then a week before Dean picked it up I noticed in a vid that it had developed some flared gills. To me this was a sign that the flared gills were related to water quality and there was a good chance the gills would go back to normal with improved water quality.

Prime and chlor-max help to keep amonia levels down in larvae systems and rotifer cultures (if you have rotigrow complete you do not have to dose prime or chlormax because it already has it, if you use rotigrow plus or culture your own phyto then you do need to dose once a week).

3 of 15 is not that bad if that is your only fish with anomalies. When I first started it seemed like half my fish had something going on. I continued to improve in my techniques and ramped up my water changes and for the most part I only have a cull or two for every 25-50 fish. I also try to have one fish in each of my broodstock pairs that is a wild caught or atleast not a washed out gene pool. Try to stay away from muted gene pools. For example...when making pairs for black ice... instead of going black ice x black ice go darwin x snowflake to get black ice, and even better if the darwin is wild.

Hope this helps a bit.

Last edited by Mr Cob; Tue, 21st Jan 2014 at 03:54 PM. "

"...and to clarify; if you see a fish early on with flared gills, chances are it will remain. If you see a growing little clownfish after meta without flared gills and then suddenly it begins to develop them, it can go away. Same for adult fish. If you ever have amonia levels spike in your tanks your fish may begin to breath heavy and develop flared gills. Get the prarameters back in check and they settle down most of the time. "

I am way too new to answer any of your questions, but I hope Mr. Cobs information helps point you in the right direction.

 

[Joeb1983]

^ Thank you very much. Very informative! I hope that this is only a temporary thing that is for sure. If it was a water qaulity issue; wouldnt it also be affecting the other clown as well?

Like I said before, yesterday was night and day as far as how active he was. Completely different fish than two days prior.

Per my LFS suggesting the fresh water dip I researched it and from what I can tell it is a "treatment" for parasites... Altough the guy/kid told my it shocks them back into "normalness" like a defibrillator... lol!

I will test the water today and see if anything is high/low and post the results. Thanks again! Fingers crossed...

 

[Joeb1983]

Nitrates where a little high at 25ish. Calcium was a tad low, but other than that everything was good. I will do a water change today after work. He is still active and seems to be a lot better in that aspect, but still the flared gills... :worried2:

I do have a reactor on the way along with some GFO to help out with the phosphates and keeping the Nitrates in check... Hopefully.

Ive been researching the flared gills and some say its water quality and it will go away when it improves and others say its a disorder from the quality of breeding... We will see.

 

[Joeb1983]

Amonia is 0, Nitrites are 0, Nitrates are now at 10 after a water change (last week) and the addition of the reactor that has been up and running for a week today. Salinity is 1.028 via my new refractometer (calibrated correctly) and slowly bringing it within spec via distilled water until my BRS 5 stage RO/DI unit for Chloramine treated water (verified my city does use Chloramine) that arrives today. I was making the newb mistake and topping off daily evap with saltwater... Calcium is back up as well. Temp is at 77.5

The little clown seems to be perfectly fine dispite still having the flared gills... Every once in a while he will open his mouth wide like a quick yawn/gasp... He shoots all over the tank and eats like a horse. He is actually more vibrant orange than the larger one. I dont know if its due to him being younger or not though?.. Both still have clear eyes, scales and fins. I try and look at the small ones gills all the time and dont see anything such as slim, white spots, etc... The gill plates are just flared outwards and the gills themselves are red in color and not sticking out past the gill plates.

He and the larger clown are honestly best buds, but they do some weird stuff... The larger one will get the others attention then quickly lay at the bottom leaning against the glass. The smaller one will then go over and do this shake thing, then the larger one gets a boost of energy and they both swim around together. Not once have I seen any agression. Who knows... lol!

I will be purchasing a 10 gallon this weekend for a QT. Setup and ideology seems simple enough. Its all a learning experience at this point for me. I just want to do it right... Let me know if you have any input or advice. Thanks guys!

 

[Joeb1983]

Well, today is day 19 that the clowns have been in my tank and they seem to be doing fantastic! The little one still has the flared gills, but as far as I can tell there are no signs of itch, disease, etc... Nothing is/has progressed. Maybe thats just the way it is?..

I have decided to change some things around in my tank as far as equipment and equipment placement is concerned. I am ditching the Marineland penguin 200 HOB along with the Marineland 400 maxijets in each corner for a single EcoTech Vortech MP10. That in conjunction with my return will be plenty of flow. Plus my filter sock, reactor (AC/GFO), skimmer, UV sterelizer and live rock/sand should be enough filtration at this point. Maybe overkill, but I think I have everything dialed in harmony as far as flow, skimmate collection and AC/GFO quantities/changes are concerend.

I have also decided to to remove my Cobalt heater from the DT and keep on hand for a backup. I purchased a Finnex titanium heater and controller to be placed in the sump. I orignally purchased a JBJ, but read horrible reviews and cancelled the order. Better to be safe than sorry.

I wanted to clean things up a bit in the DT if you cant tell; especially seeing how its only 36 gallons. (Seemed pretty big to me when I first started... lol!) I plan on using some of the the removed pieces in my QT. Back to the fish:

I have tried to get them to eat other foods, but they seem to not be interested. I have bought both frozen brine and misis shrimp and they just spit it out... Maybe I will try dry. Attached is a pic of them and my newest addition being the coral banded shrimp. I plan on purchasing a Yellow Clown Goby in the near future to be placed in the QT. After that will be a Royal Gramma for the wife even though she and I really wanted a Purple Dottyback, but was turned off by their agressiveness.

After the Dottyback; it would place the tank maturaty around the 4-5 month mark and if all goes well I plan on a beginner coral frag or two.

 

[firebirdude]

Welcome to the forum.

As I'm sure you know by now, I wouldn't worry too much. Sounds like the clown will be fine. When I had clowns, I fed New Life Spectrum food. I guess you'd call them pellets, though they're awfully small. Well they were too big for my clowns in their early life. I had to crush them with the back of a spoon before adding them to the tank. After a couple months of growing up and out, they were able to eat the whole pellet.

Enjoy my friend.

 

[Joeb1983]

^ Thanks! Thats exactly what I have been doing. Crushing 6-7 pellets with a spoon on a small plate. They eat like piranhas! Haha... Not that bad, but lets just say they like to eat.

They are so very curious as well. I never new that, so it was a surprise to me. They follow me around, investigate anything new in the tank (even if its a scrubber) , and seem pretty peaceful. I find myself just watching them and losing track of time. lol! I guess thats honestly what its all about.

 

[Joeb1983]

Well, it is day 40 and the clowns have for sure grown a little bit and they both are doing great from what I can tell. The smaller one still has the flared gills, so at this point it has become just the way it is.

I believe they are paired or at least very close to it... They are always together and the both sleep in the same corner at night. The smaller one does the submissive sidewakes shake when the large approaches quickly.

These guys are pigs! The smaller one no longer requires me to crush up the pellets. I also give them frozen brine shrimp and freeze dried blood worms for treats on ocasion.

I got my wife a Royal Gramma and it died in the QT. It would not eat not matter what I tried... :sad1:

 

[Joeb1983]

Here is what I think is are 2 awesome pics of the clown this thread was started for... He is doing fantstic and loves his flower pot!

 

[Teenreefer15]

I understand why he thought a freshwater dip would help and I agree but at the same time its shocking him so much. Either way is fine whether you dip him or not. Just watch carefully maybe try crushing the pellet and sight feeding him like you would to a coral. Good luck!