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[Tangman1218]

IMO your wasting your money on a denitrifier. Im inclined to think that your nitrates are coming in 1 or 2 ways. One is the water source. Spend the money on an RO system instead. Two, if... and this is a big if... you have enough biolockup in your sand for the stars to disturb the nitrate balance, then you would have a problem. Once released into the water column, your filtration should be pulling out the nasties, along with water changes. I dont think #2 is a possibility at this point in time, so Id say your water source is more the culprit. Water changes are going to be your best friend and from a good source would be best.

Nitrates in the concentration area of 20-40 ppm are fairly normal. Anything below 20 is fantastic, with zero of course being optimal. Dont sweat the nitrates so much . Over 40 ppm is deadly ONLY over time. Expect a shorter life expectancy with living organisms and a smaller margin of error for deaths in the tank if something were to happen and you get a spike...and your nitrates are already over 40. With that said, your Nitrites, Ammonia and Phosphates are the worst killers of corals and fish.

Your money will be better spent on 2 items; an RO/DI unit with a good membrane, and a phosphate reactor. Media with Ferric-oxide seems to work the best overall with the reactors.

Tang

 

[McCrary]

Nitrates are going to accumulate as a natural end product of the nitrogen cycle. Anaerobic bacteria will use nitrate to fuel themselves when oxygen isn't present. Anaerobic bacteria are present on live rock, but usually not in sufficient quantity to use up all of the nitrate in the aquarium. Thats why providing a source for anaerobic bacteria to culitvate (DSB) can help to control nitrates. If this isn't possible than doing more frequent water changes are going to be a good option. I would just remove the sand sifting stars so that the DSB can start culturing anaerobic bacteria.

 

[jhendu]

Well I think we want to keep the stars. Plus there are a bunch of nassarius in there as well as a few sand sifting crabs so short of taking all the sand out and going through it, I don't think we could get everything. I'm going to add a fuge ASAP. My wife is out picking up a tank ( I think it's a 30g) from a friend and we'll use that. I'm going to order an overflow and whatever else I need tonight so I can set it up as soon as the stuff gets here. I think that I'll add a phosphate reactor as well to ensure that my problem gets taken care of. Any suggestions on minumum lighting for the fuge? I have a slightly broken PC fixture that I can salvage from, would an actinic be enough light for the fuge? I really wasn't wanting to spend this money now but I don't want everything I have invested in the tank so far to die off and my wife is fed up with things turning brown. Wish me luck and please give more advice as you see fit, lord knows I need it. Right now planning on adding DSB to fuge as well as chaeto. Should there be anything else and would I be able to run my skimmer in the fuge instead of on the tank with no ill effects? Thanks to everyone for the help.

Jason

 

[jhendu]

Alright, the wife is home with the tank. It looks like a 20 tall. I've been googling my *** off and really need someone who has a sump set up to tell me what to do. So many different ideas out there that my head is spinning. I guess I would just like to put sand and chaeto in there and see how that works out. Need some advice as to what overflow/pumps to get and how to set them up.

 

[Bifferwine]

The simplest plan is to head over to Lowes and have plexiglass cut into two pieces two create baffles. This will give you 3 sections of your sump -- the first for equipment, the second for a fuge, and the third for your return pump. Silicone in the baffles and let it sit for 24 hours to cure. If your tank is not drilled, you will need to either buy or make an overflow box. Once you have got that, you will need a return pump to send the water back into the display tank.

In my fuge, I have about a 6 to 8 inch DSB, live rock rubble and chaeto.

 

[jhendu]

How tall should the baffles be and does anyone have a good suggestion for an overflow and a pump?

 

[McCrary]

When I was first starting out I often felt like I was over my head. This is what makes this forum so valuable, you can get advice and have people help you out. I would slow down and do a good sized water change, this should hold you out for a little while. If you are available this weekend I would be happy to stop by and help you get the things done that need to get done. Scott (cerreta) did the same thing for me when I needed help with my rock landscaping and since I have always tried to return the favor to others. Here are some links.

Here is an overflow for you to look at: but they are prone to losing siphon and this can cause the main tank to overflow as the water will not be returned to the sump and will build up in the tank. This can be overcome by using a small pump, like the one below, to keep the siphon from being broken.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CR1515.html

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~OE1137.html

You could get away with 1 baffle if you wanted to, just place it at the end of the refuge with enough room for the pump to be placed. The baffle should be about 1"-1.5" below the top of the tank. This will allow water to flow into the space where the pump is located without allowing the macro or sand to get into the pump area. When I installed my baffles I went to lowes and had them cut me a piece of acrylic and then placed it into the sump. It should be pretty tight against the glass, but if you make it too tight you will do what I did and crack the sump, thats a bad night, lol. You can use GE silicon to brace the edges, make sure that the acrylic is thick enough to support some pressure so it doesn't bow too much or the seals around the edges will be worthless. For the return I would use an Eheim, they are pricey but well worth the money. I have one pushing water back into my tank and into my fuge, it is quiet and hasn't given me any trouble. There are cheaper pumps available, but there is a reason that Deltec, H&S and the upper end ER's all use them for their pumps.

200gph should be plenty, the flow is going to be pretty gentle through the fuge. Here is the link to Eheim pumps.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~pumps_eheim_universal_hobby_powerheads.html

I really like the Two Little Fishes phosphate reactor, its cheap and good quality.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~filters_two_little_fishies_phosban_reactor.html

Rowaphos is an expensive phosphate remover, but it seems to be the best and doesn't seem to release trace amounts of aluminum, which some people claim can be harmful to coral. You may also want to run carbon for 3 days followed by rowaphos for 4 weeks. This is a nice little monthly cycle, the reason why you would want to limit the amount of time carbon is used is because it releases phosphates (cheaper carbons are washed in phosphoric acid and can release much higher amounts of phosphates), but running the rowaphos after the carbon should clear that up.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~filter_media_rowa_rowaphos.html

Thats the carbon and phosphate remover, they are more expensive than others, but they are very good.

I hope this has been helpful, this hobby can be tough when learning.

 

[mlimb]

A few thoughts for you. I placed my baffles too close to my pump and it does not allow sufficient volume for daily evaporation. I lose about 2 gallons per day so I have problems with bubbles in the tank due to low volume at the terminal end. Second...I have tried several different return pumps and finally spent the money for an external Sequence Dart. It is almost silent, has a 3600 gph return rate (mind you that declines with head height), and being external gave me a 3 degree decline in my tank temp. Inside the tank I had much better flow and am very happy with the change. As for you phosphate problems...I will echo everyone else...use good water. I had poor source water for several months and ended up with high phosphates and hair algae. It has been a long process getting that under control. It would be much easier to prevent than to cure. Good luck with your system and welcome to the area.

 

[jhendu]

Well I haven't been able to add a sump yet but I did add a phos-ban reactor and have been running phosban in it since Thursday. Still getting algae growth though. We have to clean the glass everyday, I'm hoping that it will just take a little bit of time to really get going. I also added some new sulpher based nitrate removal media. I just used a bit as they say that since its experimental to be careful. So far there has been no adverse reaction by any of the livestock. I dipped (I know...not the most accurate by far) the tank and nitrates were down to around 30 or so. Not great, but a bit better. Two new questions: a) would adding more live rock (which I want to do anyway) be a good idea right now and b) Is adding a 10 gallon tank as a sump even worth it on a 110g? I have an empty 10 gallon and it will fit under my stand without me having to move the tank so that is my only practical option at the moment. I tried a 20 tall but it was just a bit to wide. Probably could have squeezed it in there without the trim but with my luck I would have cracked it trying to get the trim off. So now it has replaced my wife's 10g in the playroom. Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Colerphon]

Here is a few pics on my 20 gal.

The maxi jet was temporary.

This was early plumbing on display

 

[Colerphon]

Close up of my 10 gal sump before install

This is my homemade overflow in my display. I made it with materials from loews.

 

[Colerphon]

for the return pump, I went with a mag 5, but then soon changed it to a mag 7 for better movement.

 

[McCrary]

That SCWD looks pretty cool, there should be some nice water movement with that thing. I just got my ballast back from IceCap, so I want to post some pics of my tank before I start adding all the coral frags. Hopefully I will be able to get some up tomorrow or the next day.