New member looking for direction

[Neoz]

Hello all. I have recently decided to start my venture into having my own saltwater tank. I have always been fascinated by them and have always wanted one. Well my children are off to college and decided its now or never to start learning about this hobby.

I know I have a TON to learn and read and even then won't master reef keeping anytime soon. But i was wondering if there are any meetings or such to get with other more experienced reefers to talk, see there setups, etc other then the local fish stores I live near Endicott NY.

I have done some reading and have to be honest the tech stuff makes my head spin. There is so much to learn in this hobby. But I am a very patient person so I am willing to put in the time to learn. Just not sure were to start and such. Looking for direction. So I would love to join a club or attend a meet or whatever its called. Thanks for reading....

 

[fatrip]

welcome. well we havnt had a meet around here in a while but to stear you in the right direction, here are two primary questions how big do you want to go with the tank size, and how large do you have room for? what do you want to accomplish, SPS, softie, LPS, Fish only? answer those and we will be able to stear you in a better direction that any fish store around here...

 

[SPN]

Welcome to STRS.

 

[nwrogers]

Welcome to STRS! If you have any questions let us know and we will do our best to help. You should never be afraid to ask and for what its worth it is always best to ask here first or do an internet search before doing anything. You can save lots of money doing things right the first time so if you can't find the answers on the internet don't hesitate to ask. There are a few new people on the boards and I am very glad to see that! Perhaps a few of the more experienced guys can post pictures of their setups and explain why they think they are good. There is more than one way to setup a tank and we have some people in this club that really know what they are doing. Each person does things a little differently but we all end up with good results. There are a few things we all do the same and I think those are the keys to success. Good water quality, flow, and lighting are very important. If you get those the rest will follow. The one thing I will say to keep in the back of your mind is always be weary taking advice from someone who cannot show you the fruits of their labor. That is if they are giving you advice and their tank looks sub par you may want to get a second opinion. For example many of our local fish stores would fit in this category

 

[pimpinitup6969]

you are def in a good area when it comes to knowledgeable reefers, fatrip (vince) and nwrogers (nate) were really helpful to me!

 

[Capt_Cully]

BUY THIS BOOK!

http://www.amazon.com/New-Marine-Aquarium-Step-Step/dp/1890087521

It's easy to read, and very informational. It will give you beginner and advanced information. What I liked best was that it came with 2 check lists. One is for equipment, everything from tank, sand, turkey basters etc etc that you need to get started and keep going. The second is a check list of what to do and when. It'll walk you thru set up and cycling your LR and tell you when to test for what i.e. ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and so on.

I found it, combined with endless hours of reading here on RC to be of invaluable help. I gave mine to my nephew, but there are still days almost 5 years later, that I wish I had it for a quick reference.

The author Mike Paletta is a highly respected member of the reef keeping community. And for the price....fuhgeddaboutit!

My other pearl to pass on to you is that you'll save HUNDREDS even thousands by buying reliable higher end but USED equipment. Something I wished I'd discovered early on. Best of luck to you and keep us posted on your progress. Look forward to helping you and even meeting you .

Cully

 

[daveverdo]

Welcome

Welcome

I had my first saltwater tank 35 years ago and have seen the hobby grow. I only have my current tank set up for about 8 months though (upgraded from a 30g to a 90g). The main thing I can offer is to let you know that there are many different successful ways to do things (as nwrogers already pointed out). Reading books like Paletta's (as I did and was suggested earlier by Capt_Cully) is a great start and will give you ideas. It will also give you an idea of the difference in people's views. Paletta has an opinion on bioload that is strikingly different from many other people, yet it works for him.

When you ask a question on these forums you will get a variety of answers. Ultimately, you will need to decide what best fits your needs in terms of your time, lifestyle, budget, ultimate goal, etc.

What works for one person may not work for someone else because we are all different. You will need to work toward a system that works for you.

Be careful of people using superlatives and absolutes (e.g., "the best way", the "only way"). Respect those who say "I did it this way and it worked for me." As Nate pointed out there is no best way.

Also, try not to get caught up in useless general guidelines like how many watts/gallon for lighting, gallons/hour for flow, inches of fish/gallon for bioload. These are generalizations that have no real meaning.

Used goods, trades, and mail order will save you money. Before buying locally look at prices from the sponsors and you will see that, even with shipping, things are much cheaper online. However, there is a place for local fish stores and I try to support them when I can. Local and online vendors and even other hobbyists trying to sell used equipment have a stake in selling their goods so try to be careful of taking their advise.

With all that said, how would you like to buy a used pump? It is the best pump that was ever made, the only pump that will work for whatever you want it to do, and will make your coral and fish grow grow twice as fast as any other pump on the market. It is a must have. I am selling it because I just bought a better one.

Dave

 

[Capt_Cully]

Dave makes excellent points here. I think for every point someone makes, a counterpoint can be found, so really it's up to you which direction you take. Even with all the best info at hand, a little trial and error is usually due.

When it comes to used equipment, informed consumers do best. If you have questions about equipment never hesistate to ask us if it looks like a decent deal. There are always good deals out there, but charletons also lurk, so buyer beware.

 

[fatrip]

I would agree there are alot of differnt ways to do things, but on the other hand there are only a few ways to make your life the easyest while running the system day to day , cheepest to run electrical wise and effecency. if there are alot of different ideas for one thing there are probibly alot of old and new idea mixed in there and if you think logically about easy for you, effecncy and electric cost only a few will stick out. that said the first think i would say is my ?'s from the beginning how large are you willing to go with the tank size and what do you want to achive with the tank?

 

[frankandmaura]

One thing that was very important to me when setting up was...how to make it as error proof as possible. I wanted it set up with the lowest possibility to flood my house (again). Thanks for the help Vince!!

So...pick a place in your house that you are going to be able to maintain the tank and then try to make it as permanant a fixture as you can. Because, depending on the size, you are going to want to make it as error proof as possible, unless you have a drain in the floor right near it.

Planning is EVERYTHING in this hobby, because it is hard to change stuff without a lot of effort.

Ask the questions and these people will help you every step along the way...

 

[Neoz]

Wow thank you all for the replies. I wasn't expecting so many great posts. All of them have pearls of wisdom. So now to fill in some details... First is I ordered the book Capt. thanks mate.

Second when I say I am new to hobby...I mean NEW! When I look at some of these beatiful tanks I am just stunned. Then when I see the pictures of all the stuff behind the scenes of those great tanks I'm shocked at everything room wise that is needed.

So I guess I need to start with tank size correct? I would like to get something that I wouldn't have to worry about upgrading in the near future. But at the same time want to keep my risk of failure down. So for a beginner would a 55 gallon or 90 gallon be better. I have the room for both but not sure how much additional room is needed for all the extra stuff /tanks. Excuse my lingo as I'm not even sure what all the extra stuff is as embarassing as that is to admit. But remember everyone had to start somewere correct?

So question 1 of about 10,000 to come.. If I decide to go with say 55 gallon. How much room will I need for all the extra stuff?

Also as I said I'm VERY patient so i would like to purchase high end used equipment. I can wait for deals as i have time and a lot of planning to do. I will be shopping online as well as local meets etc.

In closing I look forward to all the advice I hope to receive. And as was pointed out there are no exact set ways to do things. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Piazzon12]

I would say both probably require the same amount of space... with good planning you could be able to fit most everything underneath the tank. You could also plumb to the basement or to a nearby closet that may be behind the tank. If you are doing a Fish only, you may be able to get away with less equipment. Are you planning on a sump?

 

[Piazzon12]

for some ideas you can click on my red house... it shows my build thread.... I also know nwrogers has a build thread buried somewhere in this forum

 

[daveverdo]

Some questions back at you:

Where do you think you are headed with the tank?
Fish Only (FO)?
Fish Only with live Rock (FOWLR)?
Fish with some compatible corals?
Full reef?

If you are interested in fish you may want to think about what fish you like, many fish eat coral and are less compatible with certain corals.

If you are mainly interested in corals, you may want to research some of the wonderful fish that are compatible with corals.

The reason I bring up fish it that many fish need space to swim and I feel control the size of a tank more than many corals. There are some corals and other inverts that require larger tanks but I feel the biggest determining factor is the fish.

For example, many here and other forums would say something like a simple Yellow Tang requires at least a 70 gallon tank, others would put the minimum at 90g. Bob Fenner, fish expert and author suggest a minimum of 100g for a Powder Blue Tang (although I would not recommend the Powder Blue for a beginner).


If there are certain fish you see in your future, research it now and get enough tank.

I would say anything above 55g can be set up with an under tank sump without worry about space. Although I have mine plumbed to a sump in my basement. It does take a little more planning and plumbing but I feel having a sump in another room is a big advantage. Pretty much the only thing I do in my living room (where the display tank is located) is feed the fish and move things around once in a while. Any testing, water changes, additives, filter and skimmer cleaning is all done in the basement. I love it because it keeps all the equipment, mess, storage out of the main tank area. You would need a little pvc plumbing and strong pump to get the water up from the basement other than that there isn't much different an under tank sump but there are many advantages (almost unlimited size pump, less mess, less concerns about fitting equipment.

Dave

 

[thepircs]

Welcome.

I will always suggest to go bigger because a larger environment will be more stable than a smaller one.

Dave and Carol

 

[Neoz]

Nice to have all this help. Forgive me if i jump around in my post below.

Ok Like most noobies. I would love a reef with Fish but I know after a lot of reading this isn't the way to go. We haven't really made up our mind yet. This tank will be for my wife and myself. What we love the most about salt tanks is clownfish when they are in the anemones. I believe that is what they are called. And lots of colors and motion. Why do some tanks actually look like there is motion in the water. The plants or corals are moving. Is it the water or the sea life itself moving?

We have no basement so everything will have to be hidden within the living room. Not sure how to accomplish this yet as I need lots of planning. It was asked if I am doing a sump. Here it comes..... Not sure what a sump is or what is does. Remember I'm still reading and learning... LOL I hope to look back one day and laugh at myself for asking these questions..

After seeing your suggestions and talking with my wife we have indeed decided to go with a 90 gallon! At least something is decided.. LOL

 

[Neoz]

Adam I checked out your build thread.. Wow nice tank! I can honestly say on page 3 the picture of the things under the tank.... That stuff just amazes me. I have no idea what all that is or does. I'm wondering how long all that will take to learn.

 

[EllieSuz]

[welcome]

The drawback to a 55 is that they are only 12 inches front to back. This makes arranging rock a little tougher. In my opinion, a 75 is a perfect size. 10% water changes are still manageable and the depth is not so great you can't get your hands down to the bottom of the tank. That being said, just because I aspire to a 75 surely doesn't mean it's right for you. Why not have a look at a local LFS (Live Fish Store) and see which size suits you?

 

[daveverdo]

SUMP

A sump is just a separate tank or container set below the main tank. The main tank would have some sort of drain that allows water to flow to sump by gravity. Water is then pumped back up into the main tank. At this time, the details of how this is all accomplished without water flooding everywhere is not really important. For now accept that it works fairly well.

There are several advantages to having a sump. I will list what I think some of the advantages are others can give their opinions and add to the list.

1) added water volume, the more water there is in the closed system the more toxins are diluted, "the solution to pollution is dilution." Also helps stabilize things like temperature.

2) a place to put some equipment, having things like heaters, protein skimmers, filters out of the main display makes the display look nicer and also makes for things easier to maintain.

3) provides a place to add chemical additives and top off water that do not directly impact the things living in the display.

4) helps maintain a constant water level in the main display tank, the water level in the main display is dictated by the height of the overflow system that feeds the sump, any evaporation shows up as a lowering of the water level in the sump. You can then add fresh top-off water to the sump (see #3)

5) can contain a variety of living and inert materials to help maintain good water quality and remove excess waste.

6) can also be combined with a refugium (fuge for short) which is a place to house beneficial organism that would be eaten by animals in the main display (it provides a refuge).

Many people do not have basement sumps, they just have a smaller tank in a cabinet built into the main tank stand.

Clowns
Many clown never host in an anemone. You may want research which clowns prefer which anemones. Some anemones require fairly large tanks and most require very intense lighting. This should be taken into account when choosing both the tank and the lights. For example 70g and 90g tanks have the same footprint ( They can both have the same bottom area.) but the 90g is taller. They would both use the same size stand and light fixture. More light would reach the bottom of the 70g because it is not as deep as the 90g. They can both have the same bottom area. You would need more intense lights to supply light to the bottom of a 90g then you would for a 70g.

My clowns host in a large hairy mushroom coral.

Movement
Most movement that appears to be flowing back in forth are either anemones, soft corals, or large polyp stony corals (LPS). Many of the small polyp stony corals (SPS) are rigid. LPS such as Frogspawn, Hammer, and Anchor Corals are very common and can be gotten in a variety of colors. Soft corals like leathers, colt, Xenia, Nepthea, and others can provide a beautiful flowing aquascape. Throw in a variety of Ricordia, Mushrooms, and Zoanthids and you can have wonderful colorful mixed reef.

 

[Capt_Cully]

My first tank was a 72 gallon bowfront aquarium. A nice size. If I'd done it over again, I'd have gone with a 75 rectangular aquarium. The bowed front leads to some distortion when viewing from other than straight on. A 90 gallon tank has the same footprint as daverdo points out.

I would lean against a 55 for the same reason. Too skinny front to back. It will limit your aquascape (rock pile) and not give alot of depth when viewing from the front.

The thing about reef tanks is that the larger the body of water, the more stable. Small amounts of evaporation that occur everyday due to circulation and heat from heaters and lights happen to all of us. Now if you tank is 10 gallons, evaporation will have a greater effect on your tank's parameters. Specific Gravity will sky rocket in a smaller tank. But, a larger volume would remain more stable with a little bit of evaporation.

Changes in your water chemisty will happen more slowly as well. Giving you time to see that something is trending in a bad direction. This gives you ample time to react. A smaller body of water would not be so forgiving.

Again, the difference between 10 gallons and 100 are a lot more drastic than 55 vs 75 or 90 gallons. But, you get my point. If you can swing it, my recommendation would be 75 or 90 taking daverdo's comments regarding lighting to heart as well.