New outlet being installed. Regular or gfci??

[Utwo229]

Arc fault (AFCI) protects against two types of wiring faults so your house doesn't burn down. One is when wires become loose in a connection and the electricity arcs in the connection and creates heat. The other case occurs most often when somebody puts a nail through a hidden wire in the wall and it doesn't short but an arc starts and over time it creates heat and may cause a fire. For the most part, right now there are only AFCI breakers. AFCI receptacles are on their way, but using them requires all of the wires between them and the panel be in metal conduit. There are also AFCI breakers which are a combination AFCI and GFCI.

Depending on which US state you live in, the national electric code currently enforced has varying requirements for AFCI. But it is fact that over time, the code is going to pretty much require either GFCI or AFCI at most receptacles in a house depending on the location. For instance, bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, basements, garages all require GFCI and nearly everywhere else is going to require AFCI (in time).

 

[moatdaddy]

Wow simply put thanks for the information. Just closed on house yesterday. Installation of frag 350 next week. Adding new outlet soon that will be GFCI. Here is a question. All my breakers are 20 amp minimum. Should I run two new sets of gfci outlets. I don't think I will trip the breaker but does a high load mean more risk?

 

[gotskillz11]

Wow simply put thanks for the information. Just closed on house yesterday. Installation of frag 350 next week. Adding new outlet soon that will be GFCI. Here is a question. All my breakers are 20 amp minimum. Should I run two new sets of gfci outlets. I don't think I will trip the breaker but does a high load mean more risk?

The GFCI doesn't care about the load, how many watts are on the circuit, it is looking for an unbalanced current in the circuit. Whether or not you need 2 - 20Amp circuits depends on how many watts of equipment you plan to have run and protected by the circuit breaker. 1 - 20 amp circuit breaker can handle 2400 watts at 120V prior to tripping.

 

[michael43]

Glad I was able to start a good and helpful thread. My gfci is installed next to the tank and not behind. Excited to get it running this weekend. Thanks for all the help guys

 

[Mrramsey]

This just reminded me to install the damn GFCI outlet in the FishRoom. Bought one a while back to install and well got busy with other stuff :eek2:

 

[michaelrc51]

Arc fault (AFCI) protects against two types of wiring faults so your house doesn't burn down. One is when wires become loose in a connection and the electricity arcs in the connection and creates heat. The other case occurs most often when somebody puts a nail through a hidden wire in the wall and it doesn't short but an arc starts and over time it creates heat and may cause a fire. For the most part, right now there are only AFCI breakers. AFCI receptacles are on their way, but using them requires all of the wires between them and the panel be in metal conduit. There are also AFCI breakers which are a combination AFCI and GFCI.

Depending on which US state you live in, the national electric code currently enforced has varying requirements for AFCI. But it is fact that over time, the code is going to pretty much require either GFCI or AFCI at most receptacles in a house depending on the location. For instance, bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, basements, garages all require GFCI and nearly everywhere else is going to require AFCI (in time).

Thanks for the explanation, I had a pretty good idea.

It makes sense that the codes will change, it will protect new construction projects from issues.

I am guessing the conduit would be grounded to a ground spike?
I wasn't aware that they had to be in conduit but it does make sense considering the circuits he was questioning were ones I had used conduit.

So, GFCI is looking for electron loss and AFCI is looking for a temp change?

This sucks as AFCI breakers are much more costly than standard breakers. But, i guess it's all to help save lives in the end.

 

[wattos-reef]

GFCI Outlet w/ Alarm

GFCI Outlet w/ Alarm

Was looking to replace the GFCI outlets in my built-in tank access room and found a 15A Leviton GFCI with a built in alarm at HD (p/n GFTA1-KW), not sure if they carry a 20A version. This is an awesome combo as I've had GFCIs trip in the past and didn't discover this until some time later. Of course this won't help if there's no one around to hear it but does provide a level of awareness if you don't have a controller monitoring tank power. This outlet apparently also has the self-test capability that Utwo229 mentioned. Haven't installed it yet so not sure how loud it is.

BTW, I like to use a separate GFCI on each outlet servicing the tank rather than wiring them in series from a single GFCI. This limits devices impacted by a trip. Since I have four outlets I also strategically choose which devices to plug into each GFCI to best maintain life support should one trip while away.

Also, since these outlets are out of sight in a dedicated room, I also picked up some weatherproof outlet covers to protect from salt spray. One of the causes of inopportune trips if not kept clean of salt accumulation.

 

[Utwo229]

Sounds like everyone pretty much gets what GFCI is all about and that they are essential around the wet locations and on loads which have water running through them or nearby.

And I agree with the great explanation about 20 amp loads and 2400 watts. That's the only way you can size how many dedicated circuits you need. Just one point on that you to only size a circuit for 80% or 1920 watts on a continuous load, one that runs for 3 hours or more.

And lastly to answer michaelrc51 question; I wouldn't simplify it too much, but both GFCI and AFCI are computers that are constantly monitoring the electrical characteristics of the circuit. The GFCI is looking for indications that electrons aren't returning on the neutral line but rather assuming this is a bad thing and stopping the circuit because someone might get hurt. AFCI is looking for waveforms in the circuit that indicate that there is an electrical arc somewhere which could cause a fire.. It doesn't look for heat per se.

And the AFCI reference to conduit is this. AFCI devices, either breakers or receptacles can only sense arcs down stream, not up stream. Therefore, if

 

[snorklr]

i prefer to have tank outlets on 2 separate breakers...and split stuff up...at least that way if the breaker or gfi for the return pump pops the powerheads will still provide flow...and heater and backup heaters separate...return pump and skimmer together so no floods....etc...main problem with arc faults at the moment is they dont play well with motor startups and brush arcing...so they arent required for appliance circuits yet (or at least 2 yrs ago when my house was built )

 

[Utwo229]

Therefore, the code dictates that a circuit upstream of an AFCI receptacle must be in metal conduit because it is unmonitored and should an arc occur, it will be mitigated by the metal conduit. Unlike a GFCI which can be placed just in just about any receptacle, an AFCI breaker or receptacle may require retiring and existing circuit in order to retrofit and ensure it works properly. Way beyond this thread to get into that discussion.

Hope all this has helped everybody with GFCI and AFCI questions.

 

[Utwo229]

I agree with snorklr that 2 or more branch circuits is way better than a single one for everything. Splitting critical loads is essential just in case something trips one of the circuits.

 

[davidgnome]

How can I know how many amps a particular outlet is and can a person who knows nothing of electric work switch out my regular for a gfci? I want to be sure to get the correct gfci replacement. Also am I ok to plug everything into one outlet behind tank, because therr are not any other options?

 

[fernalfer]

Ok maybe i can get some guidance. The outlet that i have is going to be directly behind my tank. The next closest outlet is like 65-6 feet away. Should i still install a GFCI outlet to replace the regular one or should i buy a GFCI Power strip that plugs into the regular outlet? Will this provide the same protection. Because if my GFCI out let ever fails there is no way i'm moving a 120 gallon tank full of water to replace it.

Only other solution i can think of is installing a GFCI outlet that is 6 feet away but not sure of any powerstrips with cords long enough to make it to my tank.

 

[fernalfer]

Well i talked to a couple electricians and they said in my case with outlet being directly behind tank they said there would be absolutely no difference between putting a GFCI outlet at the wall or keeping regular outlet at wall and installing a good GFCI powerstrip. So if GFCI fails the powerstrip can be replaced but if it fails at the wall moving a 120 gallon tank filled with water might not be so easy. Also resetting if it does trip may prove difficult.

 

[Laredotx1987]

yeah it is always better to install a gfci outlet instead of a regular one. it will safe you alot of money incase anything would go wrong.