BillNye
New member
Totally agree. This hobby can be frustrating, especially if you don't get started on the right foot. Instead of throwing money at it, take the time to plan and research. It will pay off in the end. Good luck!
New Reefer Rant - Two months in
- Thread starter chanceafrance
- Start date
Totally agree. This hobby can be frustrating, especially if you don't get started on the right foot. Instead of throwing money at it, take the time to plan and research. It will pay off in the end. Good luck!
Reef_Maven
New member
The food yes and as others have now said your overall set up. Setting up additional equipment to try and right the situation at this point would be a waste of time and money because the overall set up is in no way ready for marine life. As I stated earlier se if the LFS will either take back the fish or "hold" them for you while you better set yourself up for success.
You mentioned that you used tap water from MPLS (bad decision aside) I assume you live either in or near the city if so check out Saltwater Empire they are one of the best LFS here in the cities and will be able to show and help teach you everything you need. I have been going there for years, great guys and gals and all very knowledgeable.
In closing though you do need to tear down and start back up. Regardless of pumps, sump set up or otherwise your tank is not suitable for any saltwater fish.
I hope you can find some where to "hold" or take back your fish, if not try and see if there are any local reefers that can assist.
Ask you LFS if they will take your fish back and hold them for you while you make some changes. Drill out the tank and add a sump, get reef sand, 100 pounds of live rock and a good skimmer. Start over with a cycle. No point in buying expensive fish and coral only to put them in a tank that is not ready. Read the forums.
Nearly all modern 55 gallon tanks are tempered and can't be drilled.
Yeah I'm am seeing granite and mind me asking is that like plain gravel? Like you would use for construction? Yikes!
+1 on taking it down and doing more research before you decide to set one up again. Also, you can build a decent budget reef to a certain extent, but it takes alot of work and even more knowledge to do it successfully.
+1 on taking it down and doing more research before you decide to set one up again. Also, you can build a decent budget reef to a certain extent, but it takes alot of work and even more knowledge to do it successfully.
sde1500
Active member
ah man, seeing posts go like this pains me so much. OP please don't take what people are saying the wrong way. We all just want to help and sometimes that involves being the bearers of bad news.
I didn't even notice the substrate either, focused on the fish. But yea, that looks more like what you would set up for a freshwater tank, not saltwater.
I didn't even notice the substrate either, focused on the fish. But yea, that looks more like what you would set up for a freshwater tank, not saltwater.
reefbroao
New member
Yes I agree, it's unfortunate that someone didn't point you the other way while you initially bought your setup. Without direction from my LFS I would be in the same spot, I think we all would have.
When I first started a store sold me a mystery snail (freshwater) while they KNEW I was there for my SW tank. Luckily I took a second look before I put him in and knew something was wrong.
chanceafrance
New member
Well this is quite the consensus. The LFS doesn't accept returns, but I have some saltwater friends so I'll look into finding the dragonets a temporary/permanent home. I set up a 10 gallon sump today anyway in an attempt to keep them alive. I'm just using two pumps, and I know it can overflow if the power goes out. Is there any good way to avoid this?
So let's say I get the octopus skimmer, buy copepods and get a attempt to get a good culture going in the the sump, and go buy 40lb of liverock TODAY. And toss the rockwork I have in there, can I at least keep all the critters alive until I figure out this whole reef hobby? I have a whole bunch of copepods that I'm watching them eat, and they're each less than an inch long. Or am I just dreaming?
I've read on other threads that dumping phytoplankton in the tank can help keep copepods thriving in spite of dragonets. I think this cause a huge algae problem, but should I keep adding phytoplankton, add more, or add less?
Anyway thanks for the input guys. I hope I can keep the Banggai's and Fire shrimp happy. The coral frags were more of a trial and error thing than a confident attempt. And I knew in the back of my head the dragonets were a bad idea, but hopefully they survive here or in a new home. I'll add updates on what happens to them.
So let's say I get the octopus skimmer, buy copepods and get a attempt to get a good culture going in the the sump, and go buy 40lb of liverock TODAY. And toss the rockwork I have in there, can I at least keep all the critters alive until I figure out this whole reef hobby? I have a whole bunch of copepods that I'm watching them eat, and they're each less than an inch long. Or am I just dreaming?
I've read on other threads that dumping phytoplankton in the tank can help keep copepods thriving in spite of dragonets. I think this cause a huge algae problem, but should I keep adding phytoplankton, add more, or add less?
Anyway thanks for the input guys. I hope I can keep the Banggai's and Fire shrimp happy. The coral frags were more of a trial and error thing than a confident attempt. And I knew in the back of my head the dragonets were a bad idea, but hopefully they survive here or in a new home. I'll add updates on what happens to them.
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gone fishin
New member
More than likely if you do as you listed the tank is going to go through a full cycle or a cycle of some sort. To start a refugium up today to grow out pods will take some time to get established. Doing all of this is great but IMO the tank conditions will not support life or at the very least inflict damage and shorten the life span of the critters.
To be blunt you jumped the gun. Remove the critters, take the months to set the tank up right then do some research on what critters you can keep with the tank you have and your skill set. Once you gain some experience and the tank matures then you may be able to add some more involved critters. I see no other way around this other than to keep spending money replacing dead critters.
To be blunt you jumped the gun. Remove the critters, take the months to set the tank up right then do some research on what critters you can keep with the tank you have and your skill set. Once you gain some experience and the tank matures then you may be able to add some more involved critters. I see no other way around this other than to keep spending money replacing dead critters.
CStrickland
New member
yeah, youre really setting yourself up for an expensive mistake here. Cut your losses and start fresh.
This thing with the mandarins is not a solution, those threads are fantasies. People get all fired up thinking theyve figured out a magic trick to keep a fish in an environment that's completely inappropriate for it and then noobs think it'll work for them too. The fact is those schemes don't work but nobody ever comes back to update the thread and let you know that the mandy died within a year. If all you had to do was crank phyto into your tank, you would see a lot more mandarins living to a ripe old age.
When you say "temporary home" know that you are talking about a year until your 55 is ready for one mandarin, if you get a strong pod farm going in a sump or separate tank.
Will the LFS not give credit on returns, or they won't take your fish back at all?
They aren't going to make it in this tank.
This thing with the mandarins is not a solution, those threads are fantasies. People get all fired up thinking theyve figured out a magic trick to keep a fish in an environment that's completely inappropriate for it and then noobs think it'll work for them too. The fact is those schemes don't work but nobody ever comes back to update the thread and let you know that the mandy died within a year. If all you had to do was crank phyto into your tank, you would see a lot more mandarins living to a ripe old age.
When you say "temporary home" know that you are talking about a year until your 55 is ready for one mandarin, if you get a strong pod farm going in a sump or separate tank.
Will the LFS not give credit on returns, or they won't take your fish back at all?
They aren't going to make it in this tank.
chanceafrance
New member
They don't accept returns at all unfortunately.
I was under the impression clean dead liverock won't start a cycle? They are eating frozen food too i think, so I'm going to buy live copepods for awhile as a temporary measure as I figure what the hell to do. Thanks for the heads up though. Any advice besides more LR, pumps, and a better skimmer as far as my other guys go? The Banggais seem to be doing okay and I'm going to try frozen mysis for them
I was under the impression clean dead liverock won't start a cycle? They are eating frozen food too i think, so I'm going to buy live copepods for awhile as a temporary measure as I figure what the hell to do. Thanks for the heads up though. Any advice besides more LR, pumps, and a better skimmer as far as my other guys go? The Banggais seem to be doing okay and I'm going to try frozen mysis for them
gone fishin
New member
If you remove the rock in your tank, then your removing whatever biological filtration those rocks provided. Once you add the clean dead rock a new cycle will be initiated. There will be ammonia in the water from your critters until the bacteria colonize the new rock to process the ammonia. While this is happening your critters will be exposed to ammonia and they will die or be significantly injured.
It would appear that your determined to keep the livestock that you have. So I will be checking out of the thread. Good luck
It would appear that your determined to keep the livestock that you have. So I will be checking out of the thread. Good luck
CStrickland
New member
Find another store, put an ad on craigslist, contact a local reef club, give them to your friends...
I don't believe for a second that you will add a few $20 bags of pods to the tank every day. You made an ignorant choice buying all of the animals, and now you are being arrogant trying to keep them. I get it, I started the hobby thinking I would have a special tank too and got humbled pretty quick. Most of us have been there. To continue this folly would be selfish. Good luck, I hope you can find decent homes for your pets before they die.
BrickFishHouse
New member
Ouch.
Man, I feel your pain - and the truth isn't always fun to hear.
I understand why you would want to be able to keep these guys going. They're cool fish. To say the least!
If you step back and restart like is being suggested, you'll be able to get those fish back in there in time.
But if you (like I did in the beginning) try to keep them all, it gets painful seeing them all go down.
No judgement from me... I did the same thing when I got started (wanting to keep fish that the tank wasn't ready for).
Man, I feel your pain - and the truth isn't always fun to hear.
I understand why you would want to be able to keep these guys going. They're cool fish. To say the least!
If you step back and restart like is being suggested, you'll be able to get those fish back in there in time.
But if you (like I did in the beginning) try to keep them all, it gets painful seeing them all go down.
No judgement from me... I did the same thing when I got started (wanting to keep fish that the tank wasn't ready for).
chanceafrance
New member
I appreciate the honest opinions everyone, and I am looking for a new home for them. I'll try a few local stores and see if I can get credit for them or something.
Other than that I'll keep their health posted (or they'll die and I'll be embarassed and not respond). I probably won't give them up for free though because I'm stubborn.
So I have a refugium going, and I added another 20lbs of clean white LR as well as some pumps to keep detritus from building up under the current rocks. I'll slowly remove the 'bad' rocks so I don't recycle the tank.
The copepods are still running absolutely rampant all over the glass in my tank, and the dragonets seem to be gorging themselves. If/when I do find them a new home, what would I be looking for exactly before I could consider getting a dragonet again?
Other than that I'll keep their health posted (or they'll die and I'll be embarassed and not respond). I probably won't give them up for free though because I'm stubborn.
So I have a refugium going, and I added another 20lbs of clean white LR as well as some pumps to keep detritus from building up under the current rocks. I'll slowly remove the 'bad' rocks so I don't recycle the tank.
The copepods are still running absolutely rampant all over the glass in my tank, and the dragonets seem to be gorging themselves. If/when I do find them a new home, what would I be looking for exactly before I could consider getting a dragonet again?
A1t2o
New member
You want a refugium that has been set up and running for 6+ months, and a somewhat mature tank that has been set up for as long or longer than the fuge. It can work to slowly switch out the rock, but you will have to remove the substrate right away and add washed sand instead. The sand will get seeded pretty quickly and should help the process.
I noticed you said that it is clean white live rock. There is no such thing. If it is clean and white, then it is dry rock or base rock. If they had it in a tank at your LFS and sold it as LR then you got screwed and I would never go there again. They could have dropped it in there that morning for all you know. In fact, if this is the store that failed to notice what tank you were putting the original rock in, then I would already have lost all trust for them and be going somewhere else. Try to get some well established rock from someone with a set up tank to take some of your bio load.
Try putting some chaeto algae in the QT tank with the dragonets and pods to try and get the pods to reproduce. They will feed on the algae too so will stay alive for longer providing more nutrients to your fish.
Good luck
I noticed you said that it is clean white live rock. There is no such thing. If it is clean and white, then it is dry rock or base rock. If they had it in a tank at your LFS and sold it as LR then you got screwed and I would never go there again. They could have dropped it in there that morning for all you know. In fact, if this is the store that failed to notice what tank you were putting the original rock in, then I would already have lost all trust for them and be going somewhere else. Try to get some well established rock from someone with a set up tank to take some of your bio load.
Try putting some chaeto algae in the QT tank with the dragonets and pods to try and get the pods to reproduce. They will feed on the algae too so will stay alive for longer providing more nutrients to your fish.
Good luck
CStrickland
New member
here's some info on setting up a suitable tank for scooters
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2446049
:debi:
I'm gonna check out of the thread now. It's bizarre that people would take any pleasure from removing a wild animal from its habitat, shipping it halfway round the world, and trapping it in a box so they can watch it helplessly starve to death. Losing that $ is a fair consequence for the mistake of buying the fish, I don't see why you would be entitled to any store credit at all. The scam with the skimmer is shady but it's only money, killing the fish for no reason is cruel. I mean, you still won't have your cash back, but the fish will be dead. It doesn't make any sense and I don't understand why that would be a fun thing to do.
I'm really glad I had the good kind of parents that taught me a little bit about stewardship.
MatnNatsReef
New member
Good on you for reaching out here and looking advice. Then more importantly starting to act upon the advice given.
