New sixline wrasse aded today with stress symptoms

complexgr

New member
So here's the deal....
Today arrived my sixline along with another goby and a cleaner shrimp. After aclimating all of them by drip method and inserting them on the tank i realised that my sixline couldn't move her tail fin but only her side fins. As a result it was hard for her to swim and was constantly carried by the stream. I desided to put her in a floating acrylic box to keep her safe and steady for the night. I tried to feed but she wont eat. She also comes to the surface to breathe.
What more can i do to calm her more?
I think its only a matter of stress. Isn't it?
No more visual signs on her.
NO3 25
NO2 0
PH 8,1
KH 9,3
SAL. 1025
TEMP 25,8 CELCIUS
FOWLR TANK SUMPLESS
P.S. I dont have a quarantine.
 
Coming to the surface to breath is a sign of low O2 levels... That makes me wonder if you have sufficient O2 in your tank. Adding an airstone is a temporary fix for that but if you have low O2 levels, you have other issues you need to look at.. Your dip acclimation can also cause issues with ammonia in the acclimation box as well as O2 deprivation. Drip acclimation should only be used when the salinity of tank is substantially different than what the fish came in so right there, you may have harmed your fish.

Is this a new tank? Do you have other fish in there? Are you running a protein skimmer? Sumpless can result in low O2 levels. Especially without a good protein skimmer and sufficient flow and great surface agitation.
 
Its a 2 years old tank and all the other fish are doing perfect. Skimmer and surface agitation are ok with good circulation and wavemaker. Drip for 30 min can do all that? I 've put all my fish in there that way including the rest of todays arrival the same way with no problem.
To sum up this aint a general problem rather than a specific fish problem with a stressed fish. Doesnt stress fish reach for the surface when under stress?
 
Its a 2 years old tank and all the other fish are doing perfect. Skimmer and surface agitation are ok with good circulation and wavemaker. Drip for 30 min can do all that? I 've put all my fish in there that way including the rest of todays arrival the same way with no problem.
To sum up this aint a general problem rather than a specific fish problem with a stressed fish. Doesnt stress fish reach for the surface when under stress?

If the fish was shipped and you drip acclimated it (ammonia build up) can severely affect the fish. Fish that stay at the surface are usually oxygen deprived. This can either be environmental or they have a parasite in the gills. IME stressed fish hide.
 
I think you are not reading the whole topic.
The fish has a paralized tail and cant swim nor hide. So its in a special container right now to avoid getting it sucked by a pump. Fish were traveling about 7 hours since there isnt a local store in my city.
Maybe take a look at this link too http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157
You will read that wrasses should be drip aclimated.
I think that a huge fish seller like them cant be wrong when proposing aclimation ways for the fish they sell.
 
Everything is back in order. The fish is swimming all over the tank and grazes on the rock for Flatworms. Thanks again for the concern but please before being judgemental be sure you have read the whole topic and that you know what you are talking about.
Thanks again.
 
I think you are not reading the whole topic.
The fish has a paralized tail and cant swim nor hide. So its in a special container right now to avoid getting it sucked by a pump. Fish were traveling about 7 hours since there isnt a local store in my city.
Maybe take a look at this link too http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157
You will read that wrasses should be drip aclimated.
I think that a huge fish seller like them cant be wrong when proposing aclimation ways for the fish they sell.

Everything is back in order. The fish is swimming all over the tank and grazes on the rock for Flatworms. Thanks again for the concern but please before being judgemental be sure you have read the whole topic and that you know what you are talking about.
Thanks again.

A bit testy aren't ya??? I read the whole topic and stand by what I said. Drip acclimation can be dangerous regardless of what you read at Live Aquaria.. Ammonia builds up to dangerous levels when drip acclimating and as such drip acclimation can be very dangerous. Especially with low O2 levels and it would appear that your tank is possibly borderline with O2. I've been doing this a VERY long time so I speak with plenty of first hand experience. Let me further explain some things to you.

Live aquaria like most online fish retailers suggest drip acclimation because they ship their fish at very low salinity (1.018) and most fish don't tolerate rapid salinity increases. Keep in mind that most of us keep out tanks between 1.021 and 1.025 with 1.025 being the common reef salinity as it matches NSW. The biggest reasont they suggest drip acclimation is for differences in salinity and in their case, given their levels of salinity, it can be prudent to do. Fish don't like rapid salinity increases. As such, acclimating from 1.018 can be problematic if not done slowly depending of course on the salinity of its new home. Fish can tolerate rapid drops in salinity much better. On the other hand, PH and nitrate changes have very little impact on fish where as salinity and ammonia spikes do. Once you open the bag, the ammonia will spike to dangerous levels and prolonged exposure to that can be lethal to fish. Further that, if your O2 levels are low, the fish being drip acclimated will see even lower O2 levels in the container during acclimation which results in greater levels of stress. If the salinity was was relatively close, the drip acclimation and almost certain spike in ammonia as a result of the longer drip method would have caused further stress on the fish.

If salinity is within .002-.003, the drip method is more dangerous than floating and mixing some water. Having said that, did you test the bag salnity vs your salinity? This is something you should always do when bringing a new fish home. If the salinity is within .01, match the temp via a 10 minute float, add a little bit of water, wait 10 minutes and set it free. If it's within .002-.003, match the temp via a float, mix some water in, wait several minutes, repeat, wait several minutes and set it free. I'd only use drip method for .004+ at that point I personally use a contraption by Reef Gently called Acclimate which is a nifty little acrylic box that siphons water into the box while siphoning water out creating a constant exchange of water. You set the drip rate out but most importantly, water is constantly being removed to insure that ammonia is not continually building up.

Going back to your relatively paralized fish. Wrasses are very active fish and stress easily when placed into a bag. That stress coupled with it darting around the bag, coupled with prolonged acclimation stress likely caused lactic acid buildup within the fish which will cause the paralysis you saw.

As to why the fish was up at the top, I stick with what I said before.. You likely have low levels of O2 and the stressed fish needed more O2 than your water had saturated in it. Your O2 levels may seem fine for some of your fish but they could be on the lower side for more active fish like a wrasses that are more sensitive to O2 levels. Especially when stressed.

Glad to hear the fish is doing better. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to bit the hand that feeds you. You obviously have much to learn and we are actually trying to help you and are providing you with solid information. :thumbsup:
 
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You will read that wrasses should be drip aclimated.
I think that a huge fish seller like them cant be wrong when proposing aclimation ways for the fish they sell.

Drip acclimation is risky for shipped livestock. When you open the bag, the shift in pH causes ammonium to be converted to toxic ammonia quickly, putting the fish in danger. Best way to acclimate a fish shipped from an online retailer is to match the QT salinity to that of the transport water (LA is usually around 1.018), float the bag to match temp, then add small amounts of tank water to the bag for no more than 30 minutes (e.g. every5 minutes or so).

Drip acclimation is an antiquated method that really shouldn't be used any more, IMO.

Edit: slief beat me to it. :)
 
A bit testy aren't ya??? I read the whole topic that one wasn't for you sorry
and stand by what I said. Drip acclimation can be dangerous i am open to listen or read any examples of people having losses due to that method i personally had all my 10 fish aclimatted that way with no loss at all regardless of what you read at Live Aquaria.. Ammonia builds up to dangerous levels when drip acclimating drip aclimation starts with a small amount of water and when it doubles in volume (aprox. 5-7 min.) we discard half of the water. so in about 7 min. we reduce the ammonia 50% after 7 more min we do the same and we have 25% of initial and the last 7min reduce it to 12,5%(aprox. because it continious rising)which is the time we put them in the tank. The whole process takes about 25 min. and as such drip acclimation can be very dangerous. Especially with low O2 levels and it would appear that your tank is possibly borderline with O2. I've been doing this a VERY long time so I speak with plenty of first hand experience. Let me further explain some things to you.

Live aquaria like most online fish retailers suggest drip acclimation they do not suggest drip aclimation they clearly state: Drip Method
This method is considered more advanced. It is geared toward sensitive inhabitants such as corals, shrimp, sea stars, and ''wrasses''
.
because they ship their fish at very low salinity (1.018) and most fish don't tolerate rapid salinity increases. Keep in mind that most of us keep out tanks between 1.021 and 1.025 with 1.025 being the common reef salinity as it matches NSW. The biggest reasont they suggest drip acclimation is for differences in salinity and in their case, given their levels of salinity, it can be prudent to do. Fish don't like rapid salinity increases. As such, acclimating from 1.018 can be problematic if not done slowly depending of course on the salinity of its new home. Fish can tolerate rapid drops in salinity much better. On the other hand, PH and nitrate changes have very little impact on fish where as salinity and ammonia spikes do. Once you open the bag, the ammonia will spike to dangerous levels and prolonged exposure to that can be lethal to fish. Further that, if your O2 levels are low, the fish being drip acclimated will see even lower O2 levels in the container during acclimation which results in greater levels of stress. If the salinity was was relatively close, the drip acclimation and almost certain spike in ammonia as a result of the longer drip method would have caused further stress on the fish.

If salinity is within .002-.003, the drip method is more dangerous than floating and mixing some water. Having said that, did you test the bag salnity vs your salinity? No because i was determined to use the drip method from the beggining This is something you should always do when bringing a new fish home. If the salinity is within .01, match the temp via a 10 minute float, add a little bit of water, wait 10 minutes and set it free. If it's within .002-.003, match the temp via a float, mix some water in, wait several minutes, repeat, wait several minutes and set it free. I'd only use drip method for .004+ at that point I personally use a contraption by Reef Gently called Acclimate which is a nifty little acrylic box that siphons water into the box while siphoning water out creating a constant exchange of waterthat is a very nice gadget and propably the best way to aclimate.. You set the drip rate out but most importantly, water is constantly being removed to insure that ammonia is not continually building up. that is what i do manually every about 5-7 minutes.

Going back to your relatively paralized fish. Wrasses are very active fish and stress easily when placed into a bag. That stress coupled with it darting around the bag, coupled with prolonged acclimation stress likely caused lactic acid buildup within the fish which will cause the paralysis you saw. I think that this is the most possible reason that caused the paralisys. I hadnt thought of that.

As to why the fish was up at the top, I stick with what I said before.. You likely have low levels of O2 and the stressed fish needed more O2 than your water had saturated in it. Your O2 levels may seem fine for some of your fish all of them including the sixline now but they could be on the lower side for more active fish like a wrasses that are more sensitive to O2 levels. Especially when stressed.
I will certainly look after the oxygen matter though just to be sure. Cant play with that things.
Glad to hear the fish is doing better. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to bit the hand that feeds you Perhaps, but I tend to reply when i have an opinion in a matter plus personal experience (even if it is not so big but it is solid) and always looking forward in prommoting the conversation in such a way that usefull conclusions might be extracted. You obviously have much to learn as all of us curious and we are actually trying to help you and are providing you with solid information And trully, believe me, thank you for your time and consern. Cooperation is really important to go a step further. :thumbsup:
 

2 comments....

First: That green font made me go blind! :lol:

Second: Your 5 to seven minute drip method may be safe under most circumstances where the salinity of the bag water is close to the salinity of the tank water however, if you are going from 1.018 (like most online retailers ship) to typical natural salt water (NSW) salinity (1.025), you can cause Osmotic shock and are more likely to experience a higher fatality rate. No matter how you face it, a large and rapid (your method is rapid) can increase stress levels substantially. Typically a salinity change of .002 -.003 per day is perfectly safe if you do it slowly. Anything over that can cause issues. Some fish are more sensitive to this than others and it also depends partly on how long the fish have been kept at a particular salinity. Places like Live Aquaria keep their fish systems at low (1.018) salinity and the fish can be under those conditions for weeks or even months.

Fish found near brackish waters can tolerate rapid salinity changes better than deeper water fish as well as reef fish found further away from shore. This is why most experienced reefers suggest having a QT system that matches the bag water and increasing the salinity slowly over the course of several days. Stress from acclimation and rapid salinity changes doesn't necessarily kill a fish immediately. It can take days or even weeks during which time the fish may seem fine. That's not to say your fish isn't going to be fine but that is something you should be very cognizant about. Especially when ordering fish online. As such, it's always a good idea to test the bag waters salinity before you begin your acclimation. I always do and based on the bag water salinity, I determine my acclimation method and acclimation length.
 
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Sory about that green.... It sure was a fail. I ''ll keep in mind to test the salinity in the bag for the next time.
If i got it right when the dealler ships low salinity 1018 there is an isue of osmotic shock for both methods bag and drip and the best should be a third way to quarantine and raise salinity slowly over the next 2-3 days. Am i right?
 
If i got it right when the dealler ships low salinity 1018 there is an isue of osmotic shock for both methods bag and drip and the best should be a third way to quarantine and raise salinity slowly over the next 2-3 days. Am i right?

That is correct.. Not only because of osmotic shock but also because of stress associated with large rapid salinity changes. Going from 1.018 to 1.025 is a dramatic change for a fish that has been housed at 1.018 for any length of time. Heck, even going from 1.021 to 1.025 in a short period of time can be very stressful on the fish and decrease the chances of short term survival. As such, matching salinity and raising it from those levels over 2 days time is a much safer approach from that level.
 
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One last thing.. You mentioned grazing on "flatworms".. If you truly have flatworms, I'd strongly suggest taking care of that if you have or plan on having coral in your tank. A six line wrasse is not generally considered a reliable fix for flat worms. Flatworms are very undesirable if in fact you do have flatworms and Flatworm Exit is probably the best solution. Some have reported that Melanarus wrasses will eat them but that too is hit and miss and a Malanarus wrasse is typically very active and will pace and stress other fish out if kept in a smaller tank.
 
A bit testy aren't ya??? I read the whole topic that one wasn't for you sorry

So who was the "that wasn't for you sorry" comment directed to?
 
A bit testy aren't ya??? I read the whole topic that one wasn't for you sorry

So who was the "that wasn't for you sorry" comment directed to?
I really dont want to continue the topic with this kind of conversation. I dont believe in chat fighting. Whatever said till now is said. If you wish for explanations please pm.
 
One last thing.. You mentioned grazing on "flatworms".. If you truly have flatworms, I'd strongly suggest taking care of that if you have or plan on having coral in your tank. A six line wrasse is not generally considered a reliable fix for flat worms. Flatworms are very undesirable if in fact you do have flatworms and Flatworm Exit is probably the best solution. Some have reported that Melanarus wrasses will eat them but that too is hit and miss and a Malanarus wrasse is typically very active and will pace and stress other fish out if kept in a smaller tank.
Yes i have a spike of flatworms. I am not thinking in going reef, not just yet. I am in a schedule for upgrading my whole system with new bigger Tank, sump, reactors etc.
My biggest concern today is to test O2. Must get this out of my mind.
 
I really dont want to continue the topic with this kind of conversation. I dont believe in chat fighting. Whatever said till now is said. If you wish for explanations please pm.

Simply asking for clarification of your comment. Let's just leave it at that.
 
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