I started a fowlr tank on 8-04-2010 . My tank finished cycling a few weeks ago and about a week ago started getting diatoms or brown algae. I have already lost a black and white heniochus, clown fish, 1 of the 3 hermit crabs, and even a blue damsel. The funny thing is I bought a bleached BTA not knowing any better, and its doing very well. Its eating every other day, and starting to turn a light green. I run a t5 lighting system with 10000k's and actinics. Water perimeters are 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate. Ph is about 8.0 . I have a theo heater that keeps the temp at 80. Its a 75 gallon tank with 25 lbs of live rock and 40 lbs of white sea sand. I'm not sure whats going wrong, but I'm about ready to switch back to a cichlid tank which I had no problems at all with for over 4 years. Any suggestions ? Everything that has died does good for the first day, then they go into hiding, then they die ?
new tank doing bad
- Thread starter rtenzo02
- Start date
rayn
New member
For starters patience! So you started on 8/4, you should have just finished you cycle. How long ago did you start adding fish? If you nems is doing good you've got something right, but slow down on the fish and try adding a single or pair of clowns. Then go from there. Are you skimming? How do you acclimate your fish or inverts? What is your salinity?
Reefman29
New member
Rayn pretty much covered it all. Usually the cycle takes a month or so. Did you record any part of the cycle? Glad to the hear the anemone is okay since they usually don't do well unless the tank is about 6 months old or more. I wouldn't add anything right now. Maybe add some snails and hermits for clean up crew and go from there.
Yes I did keep a log up until the first death. I had between 2-4ppm of ammonia for about 3 weeks while cycling. I took a water sample to a lfs, and they said everything was was good. So thats when we added the clown fish. It did great for 2 days and my wife wanted to add more. We went to a different lfs and purchased the heniochus and the anemone. The next morning the clown was laying on its side in the sand. I removed it and took it back to the lfs where I purchased it along with another water sample. They tested again and said they didnt understand, my water perimeters were good ? Later that night the heniouchus died. So I then waited about a week and purchased a snail and a blue damsel. Floated both bags adding small amounts of water every 10 minutes for about 30 minutes. I poured the specimen and water threw a net to get rid of the bag water and then dropped them into my tank. The blue damsel only seemed happy a few hours later which lasted that night only, from there it went into hiding and didnt seem to eat or swim around like a damsel should. 3 days later it was dead. Today I came home to find the snail laying upside down. Oh yea, 1 of my 3 hermit crabs I found dead out of its shell. I'm not skimming and really don't wana spend that much money on a skimmer that may not be needed if I decide to go back to cichlids. I really want a beautiful tank, if its all about being patient, then patience it is. Im lost now because I see so many new tanks, newer than mine with healthy fish. I'm also scepticle about even buying anything else for the sw tank. My wife wants me to switch it back to a cichlid tank and seems to have lost all interest in sw tanks. HELP....
rayn
New member
Like I said, patience. Secondly TEST YOUR OWN WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lfs is going to tell you anything you want to hear. Only you know what your water and tank are like. I have two lfs within 5 minutes of me and I only trust them so much. I just lost a powder brown tang in QT to ich from the lfs that swears his tanks are ich free.
API has decent test kits that run about 30 bucks for a set. If you get more advanced you can buy better sets or I dividual tests down the road. Also use the liquid test, not the test strips, big difference.
First test I would do is ammonia. Nitrite. Then nitrate. After you have you on readings and know what you have, then move forward.
Also post any and all questions, no matter how seemingly dumb. I've been there, as have countless others, it just takes time.
API has decent test kits that run about 30 bucks for a set. If you get more advanced you can buy better sets or I dividual tests down the road. Also use the liquid test, not the test strips, big difference.
First test I would do is ammonia. Nitrite. Then nitrate. After you have you on readings and know what you have, then move forward.
Also post any and all questions, no matter how seemingly dumb. I've been there, as have countless others, it just takes time.
zma21
Active member
You must shop at Fishin' Times in pekin. :lmao:
awestruck
New member
Many, many people get frustrated, me included, whether or not your new to reefing.
I guess I would make no changes right now, except for adding some snails as
reeferman suggested. Your tank is very, very young and really needs time to get established.
If the fish were lying on their side and gasping, one question I would consider is the amount of oxygen in the tank. Do you have good water movement? And, is the water moving strongly at the top? Do you have a glass lid on the tank? If you do you probably want to take it off so that the gas exchange between oxygen and carbon dioxide can occur more easily. Is your system a closed loop--and, do you have powerheads. If so, how many?
How is the anemone doing?
Why don't you wait a month or so until you add more fish. When you do, don't add too many at one time. When fish excrete waste, your system needs to break it down or your going to have an increase in nitrates. You don't want to overload your system, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S SO NEW. May just add one, two at the most, but again, give your tank time to settle down.
I clearly remember when I first began and not knowing any better (didn't know about RC then) I really overloaded my tank. It almost always ends in disaster.
As others have told you, this is a hobby that requires patience. Just sit back and enjoy your silly snails and give it time 'cuz it's totally worth it!
You'll get there so hang in tight!
I guess I would make no changes right now, except for adding some snails as
reeferman suggested. Your tank is very, very young and really needs time to get established.
If the fish were lying on their side and gasping, one question I would consider is the amount of oxygen in the tank. Do you have good water movement? And, is the water moving strongly at the top? Do you have a glass lid on the tank? If you do you probably want to take it off so that the gas exchange between oxygen and carbon dioxide can occur more easily. Is your system a closed loop--and, do you have powerheads. If so, how many?
How is the anemone doing?
Why don't you wait a month or so until you add more fish. When you do, don't add too many at one time. When fish excrete waste, your system needs to break it down or your going to have an increase in nitrates. You don't want to overload your system, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S SO NEW. May just add one, two at the most, but again, give your tank time to settle down.
I clearly remember when I first began and not knowing any better (didn't know about RC then) I really overloaded my tank. It almost always ends in disaster.
As others have told you, this is a hobby that requires patience. Just sit back and enjoy your silly snails and give it time 'cuz it's totally worth it!
You'll get there so hang in tight!
awestruck
New member
Rayn made an excellent point about testing your own water. If you have ammonia in the tank, well, that's not good. However, if the anemone is doing ok I tend to think it's not a cycle 'cuz the nem would show severe signs of stress, just like the fish.
BTW, do you have a protein skimmer? Are you using a deep sand bed?
BTW, do you have a protein skimmer? Are you using a deep sand bed?
awestruck
New member
I missed that you're not using a skimmer. So, I agree with meco65 that more rock would help because you need something more to filter your water.
I ran a beautiful freshwater tank for years and loved it. But, this is different. And, you cannot load a saltwater tank with fish like you can a freshwater aquarium. That's something that needs to be accepted in this hobby.
I ran a beautiful freshwater tank for years and loved it. But, this is different. And, you cannot load a saltwater tank with fish like you can a freshwater aquarium. That's something that needs to be accepted in this hobby.
I really appreciate everyones help !!! I do plan on adding at least 50 lbs more of live rock once I decide to keep it going. I also do have my own test kit but it is a bit old and it only test for ammonia and chlorine and it is a liquid drop kit. I also have a test kit for PH. Oxygen may be the issue seeing I only have 1 strong powerhead. I will purchase 2 more tomorrow seeing they will be ok in any tank ! I also use the aquaclear 110 with no filter media and a ver thin sponge filter pad that I wash out every few days. Kinda want to turn that into a fuge with some macro. It also helps with top water movement.
thatguy559
New member
there is a lot of good points on your post. and like everyone else said patience!!!
1. did you do a water change after the cycle? i usually do about 35% change after the cycle.
2. you need to add more rock that is your filtration system. add about 50lbs more.
3. do you have a sump? good water circulation is key
4. try running the temp at 77-78 degrees.
5. a skimmer is one of the most important parts of a marine system. even a cheap one will be better then none.
hope this helps
1. did you do a water change after the cycle? i usually do about 35% change after the cycle.
2. you need to add more rock that is your filtration system. add about 50lbs more.
3. do you have a sump? good water circulation is key
4. try running the temp at 77-78 degrees.
5. a skimmer is one of the most important parts of a marine system. even a cheap one will be better then none.
hope this helps
To compile everyone's advice. Two things that skimmers assist Salt Water Aquarists with and why they are so widely used:
1. They assist in oxidizing the water.
2. They assist in removing Proteins -- Proteins are ammonia builders. (proteins come from food and fish waste, and many other sources.).
Skimmerless systems can be successfull... I just used a used (got it for $50.00) HOB skimmer. I have to clean the air tubing monthly of coraline and other buildup, but, overall it constantly removes green gunk... It sounds like you do not have a sump either.
So, you're sumpless, skimmerless, with very little surface tension.. I understand the money thing, I really do..
So, I see a couple issues with your build. 1. You added a couple fish. They were fine for partial day, and within the first 12 - 15 hours you added additional fish. Thankfully I read hear before starting my tank so I didn't make this costly mistake. However, the reccomendation is *usually* no more than 1 medium or 2 smaller fish at once right after the tank has cycled.
This is to allow the biological filtration to catch up with the fish waste and food. Allow the tank to adapt for 2 to 3 weeks then add another 1 or 2 fish. From there wait approximately 1 week in between each addition.
Secondly, based on your snails and hermits dieing, inverts are very very very sensitive to ammonia levels. (I am surprised the nem is o.k.) so, the snails and hermits should have gone about the same time as the fish if there was an ammonia spike.
With 25 pounds of rock. your tank, is probably re-cycling. Or having problems keeping up with the ammonia production. It may spike at .2 - .4 kill the snails, and within a short amount of time process the ammonia out of the system.
The other possibility is the lack of oxygen. Which then, kills the fish, causes a slight ammonia spike, which cascades into killing the snails and hermits.
Either way, my very humble and based on the last 6 months of research I"ve done for my 55g tank, is that for your tank to continue, you will need more rock. I know you're waiting to decide to keep it or convert to cichlids before buying more rock. However, you may need more rock to be able to have the tank stable.
I agree with getting a couple more powerheads. I certainly think that will improve the overall system!
1. They assist in oxidizing the water.
2. They assist in removing Proteins -- Proteins are ammonia builders. (proteins come from food and fish waste, and many other sources.).
Skimmerless systems can be successfull... I just used a used (got it for $50.00) HOB skimmer. I have to clean the air tubing monthly of coraline and other buildup, but, overall it constantly removes green gunk... It sounds like you do not have a sump either.
So, you're sumpless, skimmerless, with very little surface tension.. I understand the money thing, I really do..
So, I see a couple issues with your build. 1. You added a couple fish. They were fine for partial day, and within the first 12 - 15 hours you added additional fish. Thankfully I read hear before starting my tank so I didn't make this costly mistake. However, the reccomendation is *usually* no more than 1 medium or 2 smaller fish at once right after the tank has cycled.
This is to allow the biological filtration to catch up with the fish waste and food. Allow the tank to adapt for 2 to 3 weeks then add another 1 or 2 fish. From there wait approximately 1 week in between each addition.
Secondly, based on your snails and hermits dieing, inverts are very very very sensitive to ammonia levels. (I am surprised the nem is o.k.) so, the snails and hermits should have gone about the same time as the fish if there was an ammonia spike.
With 25 pounds of rock. your tank, is probably re-cycling. Or having problems keeping up with the ammonia production. It may spike at .2 - .4 kill the snails, and within a short amount of time process the ammonia out of the system.
The other possibility is the lack of oxygen. Which then, kills the fish, causes a slight ammonia spike, which cascades into killing the snails and hermits.
Either way, my very humble and based on the last 6 months of research I"ve done for my 55g tank, is that for your tank to continue, you will need more rock. I know you're waiting to decide to keep it or convert to cichlids before buying more rock. However, you may need more rock to be able to have the tank stable.
I agree with getting a couple more powerheads. I certainly think that will improve the overall system!
I have a 55 gallon that I converted to salt in January 2009. I run a Marineland Emperor hand on the back along with a hang on the back skimmer. I have removed the filters and bio-wheels from the Emperor and place Chemipure Elite bags inside.
This has been very successful for me so far. I add a media reactor to allow me to remove excess phosphates.
I think you will find a skimmer very useful in pulling fish waste out of your tank and provide an oxygen source for your tank.
The other posts are correct in that your tank is still in cycle. When I started with salt, my LFS would only sell me a couple blue chromis. The advice I received was that I was going to lose fish and to start with the less expensive ones.
This has been very successful for me so far. I add a media reactor to allow me to remove excess phosphates.
I think you will find a skimmer very useful in pulling fish waste out of your tank and provide an oxygen source for your tank.
The other posts are correct in that your tank is still in cycle. When I started with salt, my LFS would only sell me a couple blue chromis. The advice I received was that I was going to lose fish and to start with the less expensive ones.
rayn
New member
You shouldn't have to loose fish. I still have one of my first clowns. How I don't know. He made it through a tank crash where I lost the other clown, foxface, well about 150 worth of fish. Then through QT, then back into the tank only to have it leak just tuesday so a very quick unacclimated move to my 120. Still kicking where others havn't. If you set your tank up correctly and provide what is needed, you should be good.
No this isn't a knock against anyone on how they add fish to their tank either.
Also, you can run skimmerless, you just need to be religious on water changes to remove the protien that the skimmer would do automatically.
I havn't seen where you stated the size tank you have. That makes a difference on your powerhead. I ran two koralia 3 in my 55. I only have two tunze 6025 in my 120, but major return flow.
No this isn't a knock against anyone on how they add fish to their tank either.
Also, you can run skimmerless, you just need to be religious on water changes to remove the protien that the skimmer would do automatically.
I havn't seen where you stated the size tank you have. That makes a difference on your powerhead. I ran two koralia 3 in my 55. I only have two tunze 6025 in my 120, but major return flow.
DirectAquarium
Registered Member
Any chance Copper has been in the tank? That would explain your inverts and stuff dying. Copper shouldnt affect your fish but your inverts and stuff would be toast.
awestruck
New member
Copper would have killed the anemone.
Try this with the power heads:
#1 put it in the top back corner and point it straight across (the width of the tank)
#2 put it on the opposite side of the tank, in the back corner, but don't blow it at power head #1, blow it at the front corner of the tank that power head #1 is on.
#3 put it lower in the tank and point it at an angle so it can cover as much space as possible.
Just a thought: before I had a closed loop system, when I used a canister and a cheap skimmer for filtration, I had 5 powerheads going in my 58.g (3' wide). I had them hid behind rock and you could only see 2.
Another thought: if you want your tank to run well you're gonna have to spend some money. Not a fortune like many people do, but you're still gonna have to spend some. The ocean is turbulent...
Try this with the power heads:
#1 put it in the top back corner and point it straight across (the width of the tank)
#2 put it on the opposite side of the tank, in the back corner, but don't blow it at power head #1, blow it at the front corner of the tank that power head #1 is on.
#3 put it lower in the tank and point it at an angle so it can cover as much space as possible.
Just a thought: before I had a closed loop system, when I used a canister and a cheap skimmer for filtration, I had 5 powerheads going in my 58.g (3' wide). I had them hid behind rock and you could only see 2.
Another thought: if you want your tank to run well you're gonna have to spend some money. Not a fortune like many people do, but you're still gonna have to spend some. The ocean is turbulent...
