New tank high nitrate question

[KhanhQ83]

Hello all. I'm not new to the reef hobby but I recently started cycling my new 180g set up a month ago. It's going well so far, ammonia 0, nitrite still off the chart 5ppm+. Today I also checked my nitrate and it's extremely high. Maxed out 160ppm with API test kit, probably even higher than the chart.

I'd like to ask you guys for opinions on possible options. Here is what I can think of:

1. 100% water change at end of cycle (least favorable, it's a lot of water!)
2. Start dosing carbon (vinegar) immediately (most favorable)
3. Run biopellets
4. Run biodenitrator
5. Any other options???

Even with dosing carbon immediately, it would take a few months to notice see the result, correct? I plan to put in some chaetomorpha in the sump but at this stage would the high nitrite and nitrate kill the macro algae? I haven't turn on the lights yet but I do have skimmer up and running.

What would be the most effective, fastest way to remove all that nitrate? Experts, your opinions are needed. Thanks in advance!


Here's what my API test kit shows on nitrate:

 

[jeff20578]

I am working on the same issues that you are at the moment. Im on week 5 of my cycle and still have nitrates through the roof. The bottom line is patients. You should let the tank run its natural course and it will eventually show 0 readings. A water change during a new tank cycle will just prolong the process even longer.

Just my .02

GL

 

[Palting]

The denitrifying bacteria take a lot longer to develop compared to the nitrifying bacteria. If you still have nitrites, then your nitrates will get even higher in the near future.

How much rock do you have? Do you have a refugium with macro yet? Skimmers on?

Patience indeed is important, but a large refugium with macro and a good amount of large pieces of liverock also help. It is generally accepted to start doing water changes once your nitrites are zero, regardles of the nitrate level. The belief that water changes prolong cycling is often mentioned, but IMO has been debunked. Lots of threads here on that topic, so I won't repeat it.

I like to keep it simple, and denitrators and vinegar dosing and biopellets add a level of complexity too early for your tank, IMO. I would just wait until your nitrites go to zero. After that, start doing multiple water changes and start a refugium to get the nitrate export process going, set-up a QT because you will be getting fish in the very near future .

 

[Playa-1]

I agree, Nitrate reduction is something that will occur naturally during the cycling process, that is assuming that you have liverock in the tank. It's not something that you want to interfere with, otherwise you will short change the tank on beneficial bacteria and it could be more difficult to manage. This is where patience come it.

 

[KhanhQ83]

I forgot to mention that I do have about 120lbs of rocks in my tank all started dried base Marco rocks and 2.5" of dry sand. I do have a sump running all my main equipments are listed in my signature, the skimmer is currently running but I left the lights off the entire time. Can I add chaetomorpha now? I'm just concerned that the macro algae will die during the cycle process. Also, is it necessary to leave the lights on during the cycle?

Thanks

 

[Palting]

I would wait until the nitites are way low, like undetectable, before adding any macro. I don't know if the nitrites are bad for macro, but that just seems to be how it's done as I understand it. Macro will love the high nitrates, OTOH.

Again, as I've come to understand it after multiple reads and multiple threads, bacteria do not care about lights. They will multiply and thrive either in light or in dark. Algae, OTOH, love light. So, the only effect of having lights on during cycling is an algal bloom. The only good reason I've found that would justify a period of light during cycling is if you want to preserve any life forms or hitchikers on your liverock. Lifefroms like zoas, mushrooms, coraline.....If that's the case, then you would also need to keep the ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes down so that these don't kill the life forms you are trying to preserve.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am working on the same issues that you are at the moment. Im on week 5 of my cycle and still have nitrates through the roof. The bottom line is patients. You should let the tank run its natural course and it will eventually show 0 readings. A water change during a new tank cycle will just prolong the process even longer.

FWIW, most people do not get to 0 ppm nitrate without some sort of substantial effort. It does not just happen as part of the cycle in most tanks unless you have fairly extensive export methods.

That said, for the OP there are many ways to go with respect to nutrient export. I use all of organic carbon dosing (vinegar, but there are other choices, such as vodka or pellets), skimming, growing macroalgae, large rock filled refugia, GAC, and GFO.

Other likely contenders are denitrators of various sorts, other phosphate binders, deep sand beds, and ats systems.

This has more:

The "œHow To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners,
Part 4: What Chemicals May Detrimentally Accumulate
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/rhf/index.php

 

[Spectre2006]

1) media reactors:

- activated carbon
- gfo
- biopellets

2)

- liquid carbon dosing (vodka)
- protein skimmer
- filter socks
- live rock
- excellent water circulation
- excellent light

- bacteria addition (bioactive, others)....

worked well for me.

 

[SKurj]

add some live rock or even some sand from your established tank..

 

[KhanhQ83]

Randy, as far as my current situation, do you think I should take any immediate action to reduce the nitrate levels or should I wait until the cycle completes? I plan to dose vinegar as a method to control nitrates in long term. Thanks

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[uncleof6]

Randy, as far as my current situation, do you think I should take any immediate action to reduce the nitrate levels or should I wait until the cycle completes? I plan to dose vinegar as a method to control nitrates in long term. Thanks

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Take your water sample to an LFS--and have the nitrate test confirmed. I am not believing the results on a tank that has not really cycled yet. API is giving some bad readings, with the confirmation coming in at ~ 40 ppm. I saw the result, before I saw API, and I thought: API kit.

 

[uncleof6]

I would wait until the nitites are way low, like undetectable, before adding any macro. I don't know if the nitrites are bad for macro, but that just seems to be how it's done as I understand it. Macro will love the high nitrates, OTOH.

Again, as I've come to understand it after multiple reads and multiple threads, bacteria do not care about lights. They will multiply and thrive either in light or in dark. Algae, OTOH, love light. So, the only effect of having lights on during cycling is an algal bloom. The only good reason I've found that would justify a period of light during cycling is if you want to preserve any life forms or hitchikers on your liverock. Lifefroms like zoas, mushrooms, coraline.....If that's the case, then you would also need to keep the ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes down so that these don't kill the life forms you are trying to preserve.

Nitrite is such an insignificant concern in a marine system, it is not really worth testing for it, other than for observing the initial cycle--if you have never seen it before. There is no evidence to indicate that nitrite will cause any problems till the concentration is very high, over a prolonged period of time. Above 100 ppm but probably more of a concern over 300 ppm. Ammonia is the concern, nitrite is just B between point A and C.

 

[uncleof6]

I agree, Nitrate reduction is something that will occur naturally during the cycling process, that is assuming that you have liverock in the tank. It's not something that you want to interfere with, otherwise you will short change the tank on beneficial bacteria and it could be more difficult to manage. This is where patience come it.

This is rather assumptive, and there is insufficient evidence to support the idea that denitrification is taking place inside live rock with a closed system marine aquarium. Just by simple observation, if this was occurring--in any significant way, we would not be chasing our tails dosing vodka, and buying Bio Pellets--or using RDSBs etc.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/feature/index.php

 

[KhanhQ83]

I also have a nitrate salifert kit. It turned purple immediately when i added the reagents and it's off the chart so I believe API test must be accurate.

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[BigCountry74]

Nitrite is such an insignificant concern in a marine system, it is not really worth testing for it, other than for observing the initial cycle--if you have never seen it before. There is no evidence to indicate that nitrite will cause any problems till the concentration is very high, over a prolonged period of time. Above 100 ppm but probably more of a concern over 300 ppm. Ammonia is the concern, nitrite is just B between point A and C.

X2.

Keeping it under 10 for a long period of time is more of a hobby in itself. Well and a tad bit of excessive impulsive disorder....which of course comes naturally with this hobby...
:thumbsup:

 

[Triton_Z]

Whats your bioload in this tank? From reading the original post, I think you stated you were still cycling. It's odd to have such high nitrates with dry rock and one month into a cycle.

Drop a dead 13" grouper in your tank to cycle?

I thought the same thing when I saw the API test kit as uncleof6. Usually max scale readings are bad reagents and/or old/bad test kit.

 

[Palting]

Hmmm. Just read Randy's article. Nitrite indeed appears to be not a toxic thing in marine aquaria. I do wonder if extremely high levels can be toxic, however.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, as far as my current situation, do you think I should take any immediate action to reduce the nitrate levels or should I wait until the cycle completes? I plan to dose vinegar as a method to control nitrates in long term. Thanks

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I'd figure out what methods you want to use for nutrient export, then implement them when you can (meaning now but not an emergency). In most cases there s no need to wait for anything, but there is not a huge rush.

 

[KhanhQ83]

I'd figure out what methods you want to use for nutrient export, then implement them when you can (meaning now but not an emergency). In most cases there s no need to wait for anything, but there is not a huge rush.

Thanks Randy. I'll start dosing vinegar now and hopefully bring down nitrate within a few weeks. I'll add chaetomorpha when nitrite registers 0 on test kit. Skimmer is currently running but doesn't pull out anything just pretty much white foam. If I must, I'll look into sulfur denitrator. I would rather keep my tank simple as possible but if it must then so be it.

 

[KhanhQ83]

Whats your bioload in this tank? From reading the original post, I think you stated you were still cycling. It's odd to have such high nitrates with dry rock and one month into a cycle.

Drop a dead 13" grouper in your tank to cycle?

I thought the same thing when I saw the API test kit as uncleof6. Usually max scale readings are bad reagents and/or old/bad test kit.

I had a bunch of left over home made frozen fish food that I dont use anymore and put them into a filter bag. Left it hanging in the tank for longer than I should have (2 or 3 weeks?) It didn't stink as much as the raw shrimp method (the smell only lasted 2 days) so I just left it in there. I guess it dumped so much ammonia in the water that the bacteria can't keep up. I have no bioload, just 120lbs of rock and 250lbs of sand.