New tank, trying to decide on setup, zeovite, or Triton, or other option

[Lizard333]

I have got a 180 gallon tank I'm in the process of putting together. I have most of the equipment but I'm not sure if where to go on the filtration. I'll be using the bean overflow, one inch, various 8 return pump, a closed loop pump as well. I'm putting together the manifold for possible gfo, UV sterilization, carbon, and possibly a cheato reactor.

Triton method sounds appealing with the zero water changes, but buying products solely from them Kinda freaks me out. Seam like trace elements run you a minimum 32 bucks a bottle. There's s ton of them.

Zeovite seams very effect, but again a lot of stuff to dose.

I will be shooting for an ultra low nitrate and phosphate tank. I'm going with an LED T5 combo for lighting. The goal will be a mixed sps lps and soft costal tank. I also would like to have an eel.

I'm at about 90% sure about using sand, as I really love jawfish.

If you had to start fresh knowing what you know now, what would you choose?

I'm current using the Red Sea dosing on my 28 gallon cube with great results so I guess that system is an option as well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and time!!

 

[ssgss gogeta]

New tank, trying to decide on setup, zeovite, or Triton, or other option

I'm in the very slow process of my next build and I've put quiet a few hours research into triton. While the obvious appeal of no water changes has its upsides I find myself wanting to stick with what I know and what's worked for me. Good skimmer, refugium uv and maybe gfo or biopellets and regular water changes. Doing randies recipe, feeding fish and the occasional amino doisng and reef roids

Ultra low nutrients is hard to achieve naturally imo, so if that's what your after you may have to look at the triton or zeovit.


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[jda]

The vast majority of the successful tanks around are pretty much straight Berlin. I would caution people to really have a REALLY good reason to want to deviate from this, and then about twice the breath and depth of experience that you think that you need to do so. If you are into a little bit of sand, then Berlin is super easy.

Nature can handle most of this if you let it. I would start with real live rock since dead/dry just gunks up and delays the process for a lot of people.

Zeo can be really great for a high end SPS tank for a very experienced reefer - people who are neither oft are disappointed. It can really get the last bit of color and pop out of your corals, but it makes them walk a thin line very near to STN and RTN, so you have to know what you are doing.

There is on very solid reefer who has decided to use Triton - I am interested to see how it goes. He is elite and it was a bit telling that he decided to give it a "try" but he will admit that he will abandon it in a heartbeat if he needs to. Him, as well as most of the rest, have enough built-up goodwill in their tanks (phosphate free aragonite, NO3 process) that even if Triton is a complete disaster, it will be a few years before anything starts to suffer. My guess is that Triton will come and go like so many of the past. I will take a hard look at Triton in about 2021-2022 if there are tanks around with 5 years of success.

In any case, a really mature tank is a good starting point for all of this. I would not start any "system" until your tank is covered with coralline, pods, sponges and is processing all of the NO3 on it's own - this will take a year, or so.

 

[Lizard333]

So basically the Berlin Method that your describing it is any method of filtration that utilizes a protein skimmer, liverock and should have a means for mechanical filtration as well, such as filter socks or filter floss. Does this include a UV Sterilizer, Bio media, GFO, Carbon? What about a refugium/cheato reactor?

 

[mcgyvr]

In general the Berlin method is just utilizing rock, a skimmer and mechanical filtration like socks (though many skip the mechanical aspect).. Anything else is up to you..

IMO.. If you have sufficient rock so that you have sufficient bacterial colonies you do not need a UV or any other reactors or macroalgae fuges,etc... All of that may be used when you don't have enough bacteria to take care of everything on its own..

 

[jayball]

IMO, save the cost of the reactor and pump and just run the carbon and GFO passively when you need it. ATS or chaeto reactor is nice and allows you to feed more without risking algae outbreaks.

 

[jda]

Basicly, but there are nuances that people are really screwing up lately and I blame manufacturers and suppliers.

You will need real live rock. Dry rock is not the same and is a burden in the beginning and not part of the solution. Real pacific live rock can be a prize in your tank and does not have to be expensive. You cannot afford to buy dry/dead rock. You also need a substantial amount - a minimalistic scape won't help as much.

There are plenty of good skimmers, but you need one.

GFO can be fine once the tank is REALLY established and you need to control a certain thing and have an excellent grasp on your tank and it's chemistry and biology. Before this, it just interferes with the natural bacterial process and can really set you back. I would not even look at any GFO or other media for at least a year. Fuge can be really good at about this same time, but can struggle at first when systems are young and nutrients are limited - if you want one, plan ahead, but keep it empty for a while.

IMO, UV does nothing. Use it if it makes you feel better, but I have never personally seen any benefit.

Activated carbon can be used to polish and clean the water, but should not be used all the time or relied upon for filtration.

You must use aragonite sand - the bonding of phosphate and aragonite is very powerful and helpful.

You must change water.... out with the bad, in with the good. Some people see 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate on their test kits and think that they do not have to change water, but this is not true at all and the aragonite is doing the heavy lifting but can get "full" if you don't change the water.

Lastly, and this is what people do not really understand and think that they can "cheat," but nobody does and ends up paying in the end... you need patience. You will get a diatom bloom - this is good and a sign of a maturing tank. You will get cyano - again part of the maturation process. Interfering with any of this will need to be repaid in time several fold and is not a good idea. It can take a year, or more, for a tank to fully cycle to where it can turn NO3 into N gas - until then, the tank will have ups/downs and you need to just be patient. One day, your tank will be covered in coralline, have pods and sponges everywhere and then you are good to go.

 

[jda]

Once you get this far and you have a super stable tank, then you might want to drive nutrients really low and kill some of zoox in your corals with harsh metals for better contrast and then Zeo might be an option. Zeo can succeed if you start it later on.

You can use some GFO once you get here to just drive phosphates down a bit. ...or a fuge to help with both N and P.

Once your tank is stable, diverse and mature, then you can tweak on it a bit. Tweaking before this just starves and cripples one part of the maturation process while usually driving a different one too far.

 

[Lizard333]

So how do you deal with the unwanted pests that come with the live rock? I've done live rock in every tank in the past 15 years, and every time I get pests that are unwanted, like mantis shrimp, and other problem causers. I was considering the dry rock to skip these guys but I have to admit I love most of the extra goodies that come with the rock.


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[jda]

Get pacific live rock. The curing process will kill all of that, but nearly all of the pests crawl out of the rock during transportation anyway - it is in the air. I do not recommend rock that comes in water (Gulf Stuff) - the stuff on the outside that everybody swoons over is fools-gold... it nearly almost always dies anyway and the pests are horrible. The rock is all that you are needing, not the stuff on it.

Just boat rock from Fiji will work just fine, but it needs cured. Something like livestockusa.org will work just fine - there are many others that sell the same thing. You will have to get it at the airport, but it is easy.

The air freighted stuff will work well too - it has more stuff alive on it. Not much will survive the curing process, though.

 

[miston]

Tons of great info in these posts! Great advice!

I took a break from reefing and recently heard about the Triton method - no water changes & someone else tests my water?!? Hell yes!!

Then I realized the Triton method has issues.

So back to Berlin. Could some of you recommend some resources that goes in depth to some of the concepts y'all mentioned, like being very disciplined and being patient?