new to hobby, question about sump setup.

[digitaljepoy]

Hello, i am new to this reef tank hobby and I am planning to build my second tank with sump. My first 5gallon tank failed because I was too excited to start the hobby. I didnt know anything about it and only started reading after seeing my livestocks die one by one each day. Amazingly though, 2 damsels and a clown fish survived the break down. I think they survived because I made water changes every after 2 days and changed its fluval filter after reading a few topics online about tank care. And yes, my tank didnt go through the nitrogen cycle :fun2:

Anyway, I still love the hobby and I want to do this right this time. I am going to build a 30gallon display tank with a 10gallon sump. This is what Im planning to do with the sump,

1st chamber will be receiving the water from the DT, it will also contain a protein skimmer and all the live rocks i can fit in there without messing up the water flow too much.

The second compartment will house the sand bed, not the fine ones but the pebble like broken corals sand and about 2-3 inches deep. I am also planning to grow chaeto and pods in the second compartment.

The third compartment will house the return pump and a bag of carbon pellets.

this is what I have thought of doing after all the readings. Am I doing this right? I mean, is it totally ok to put the LR and Protein skimmer on the first compartment knowing that the second compartment will contain chaeto and pods? Or LR and protein skimmer in one compartment is overkill?

looking for some advice guys, thank you in advance.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Great plan but I suggest that you get a 20 gal tall for a sump. Petco is having their $ per gallon sale starting July 1 or there abouts. I'd even go with a 40 b for your display tank. I've had a few tanks of various sizes over many years and will be turning my 30 gal into a 40b with this sale and keeping my 20 gal tall sump that I currently have. You can always get a hob filter and pump to keep your 10 gal for a quarantine tank.

You'll be able to buy both tanks for $60, much cheaper than you can buy even the 30 gal.

 

[digitaljepoy]

Great plan but I suggest that you get a 20 gal tall for a sump. Petco is having their $ per gallon sale starting July 1 or there abouts. I'd even go with a 40 b for your display tank. I've had a few tanks of various sizes over many years and will be turning my 30 gal into a 40b with this sale and keeping my 20 gal tall sump that I currently have. You can always get a hob filter and pump to keep your 10 gal for a quarantine tank.

You'll be able to buy both tanks for $60, much cheaper than you can buy even the 30 gal.

Thank you sir! Right now, I dont have the space for a bigger tank. but I will consider your inputs and make measurements again, maybe I can move things around the house so i could accommodate a bigger tank. I do understand the benefit of having bigger water volume.

 

[ryeguyy84]

I'd reconsider the sand in the sump, it just makes it harder to keep clean.

Also, if you're going to put a lot of live rock in the sump make sure you shake it every now and then because the sump is where everything tends to settle. that is why I didn't put any live rock in the sump. this way I can wetvac all the crud out.

That is assuming that you can fit enough live rock in the DT. if you're going with the minimalist look then you'll need some live rock in the sump.

 

[Sapelo]

+1 I would not put sand into the sump and rock only if necessary. The extra level of work to keep it clean outweighs the benefits IMO
Otherwise sounds like a good plan and sump design

 

[digitaljepoy]

I'd reconsider the sand in the sump, it just makes it harder to keep clean.

Also, if you're going to put a lot of live rock in the sump make sure you shake it every now and then because the sump is where everything tends to settle. that is why I didn't put any live rock in the sump. this way I can wetvac all the crud out.

That is assuming that you can fit enough live rock in the DT. if you're going with the minimalist look then you'll need some live rock in the sump.

I see, I am planning to put a good amount of LR in the MT. I figured that its also good to put LR in the sump for extra filtration.

Can pods and chaeto thrive in the fuge without sand?

 

[digitaljepoy]

+1 I would not put sand into the sump and rock only if necessary. The extra level of work to keep it clean outweighs the benefits IMO
Otherwise sounds like a good plan and sump design

so I guess sand is out, but can chaeto and pods live in a sandless fuge?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I'd reconsider the sand in the sump, it just makes it harder to keep clean.

Also, if you're going to put a lot of live rock in the sump make sure you shake it every now and then because the sump is where everything tends to settle. that is why I didn't put any live rock in the sump. this way I can wetvac all the crud out.

That is assuming that you can fit enough live rock in the DT. if you're going with the minimalist look then you'll need some live rock in the sump.

Many people use either a sandbed or miracle mud in the sump as an additional biological filter. I have sand and lr in one of my sections and it works very well. My 30 gal DT has enough biological filtration to keep a dozen fish or more with their bioload. NOT that I will get that many but it's the point of biological filtration.

 

[digitaljepoy]

im getting a bit confused. Isnt the purpose of the sump to provide bio filtration? whats the point of keeping a bare bottom sump then? How often do you clean a bare bottom sump, vs a sump filled with rocks and sandbed?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I see, I am planning to put a good amount of LR in the MT. I figured that its also good to put LR in the sump for extra filtration.

Can pods and chaeto thrive in the fuge without sand?

Like I stated in my other post the sand is additional biological filtration. Is it necessary, No neither is the rock or chaeto. But they are all adding to the biological filtration and you will have cleaner water in all respects. You also don't have to worry if you can add that one other fish you so badly want, the increased load will handle it, and handle it WELL! I've got all three in my sump I clean my sump out once every 6 months to a year but when I do I take it offline and clean it thoroughly!

 

[ryeguyy84]

Many people use either a sandbed or miracle mud in the sump as an additional biological filter. I have sand and lr in one of my sections and it works very well. My 30 gal DT has enough biological filtration to keep a dozen fish or more with their bioload. NOT that I will get that many but it's the point of biological filtration.

don't get me wrong you can do it and many people including myself have done it but to me it's just added work. in my current tank I went with no sand in the fuge. everything living is crawling around in the chaeto ball. I should have added in my opinion to my post.

Chaeto and pods will be fine without sand.

 

[digitaljepoy]

Like I stated in my other post the sand is additional biological filtration. Is it necessary, No neither is the rock or chaeto. But they are all adding to the biological filtration and you will have cleaner water in all respects. You also don't have to worry if you can add that one other fish you so badly want, the increased load will handle it, and handle it WELL! I've got all three in my sump I clean my sump out once every 6 months to a year but when I do I take it offline and clean it thoroughly!

Thats what I initially thought after reading all the sump related topics. I understand that the sump needs cleaning but its also my understanding that adding rocks and sand will minimize the need for cleaning the sump because the rocks and sand provide filtration. Correct me if im wrong, I dont have the experience saying all these, Im just basing this from all the readings I did. The semi fine sands are my choice since its easier to clean them than the real fine ones.

 

[Fish Keeper82]

Thats what I initially thought after reading all the sump related topics. I understand that the sump needs cleaning but its also my understanding that adding rocks and sand will minimize the need for cleaning the sump because the rocks and sand provide filtration. Correct me if im wrong, I dont have the experience saying all these, Im just basing this from all the readings I did. The semi fine sands are my choice since its easier to clean them than the real fine ones.

Adding rocks and sand to sump will not minimize need for sump cleaning, it will greatly increase it. I used to have a bunch of live rock in my sump but when i went to clean it it would make the water look like chocolate.Its a major detritus magnet.

I have since started a new tank and no rocks in this one. A filter sock will minimize cleaning of the sump.

Only reason i would add live rock to sump is if you want to make the display look less cluttered and keep a good amount or rock hidden from display. Or you want the extra biological filtration. If neither of these is your goal skip the rock.

 

[ryeguyy84]

The "pros" of adding live rock to the sump are generally related to increased biological filtration capacity and "rock life" - pods, etc. Also, if the sump is not lit, you can really get some good sponge and tunicate growth, since other (photosynthetic) things won't overgrow/out compete them.

The biggest potential con (IMO) is that you'll trap a lot of dirt in the rock since there's probably not much flow over it. In a system where elevated nutrients aren't a concern, it's a great way to "refuge". In a system you're trying to keep as clean as possible, it's a hindrance.

 

[digitaljepoy]

i see, so its matter of balancing each component out.

good thing I havent started my new tank yet. I will reconfigure it. 1st compartment will no longer have LR, second compartment will have a few LRs, it will also serve as fuge for pods and chaeto, definitely going to light it for the chaeto. third will remain the same.

 

[Fish Keeper82]

im getting a bit confused. Isnt the purpose of the sump to provide bio filtration? whats the point of keeping a bare bottom sump then? How often do you clean a bare bottom sump, vs a sump filled with rocks and sandbed?

Purpose of a sump is for many reasons. I have one for added water circulation and a place to keep my equipment such as protein skimmer( filtration) carbon reactor and GFO reactor. Its also adding to total water system volume which = more stability in water parameters.Gives you a place to put a sock for particle capture. Alsogives you multiple options as adding a refugium, and what i like the most it keeps your display water level constant. Water evaporation will be seen here and not the display tank.

 

[digitaljepoy]

Purpose of a sump is for many reasons. I have one for added water circulation and a place to keep my equipment such as protein skimmer( filtration) carbon reactor and GFO reactor. Its also adding to total water system volume which = more stability in water parameters.Gives you a place to put a sock for particle capture. Alsogives you multiple options as adding a refugium, and what i like the most it keeps your display water level constant. Water evaporation will be seen here and not the display tank.

Im going to get a sock filter going too, thanks for mentioning that.

 

[Fish Keeper82]

Attached is a picture of mine. Its 20 gallon as previously recommended. Was just the right space after all done

 

[digitaljepoy]

nice looking sump. do protein skimmers take out detritus/poos?

 

[Fish Keeper82]

nice looking sump. do protein skimmers take out detritus/poos?

If you want to have sucess in the hobby a skimmer is an absolute must. its your number 2 filtration device after liverock/ sand. It takes protein matter( uneaten food and fish poo )etc...and make it adhere to micro bubbles which in concentration will make a foam head and collect in the collection cup for disposal prior to be filtered by live rock.
But that's a whole other thread topic.