new to hobby, question about sump setup.

[Dkuhlmann]

Thats what I initially thought after reading all the sump related topics. I understand that the sump needs cleaning but its also my understanding that adding rocks and sand will minimize the need for cleaning the sump because the rocks and sand provide filtration. Correct me if im wrong, I dont have the experience saying all these, Im just basing this from all the readings I did. The semi fine sands are my choice since its easier to clean them than the real fine ones.

Yes you would be correct IMO! :thumbsup:

 

[Dkuhlmann]

don't get me wrong you can do it and many people including myself have done it but to me it's just added work. in my current tank I went with no sand in the fuge. everything living is crawling around in the chaeto ball. I should have added in my opinion to my post.

Chaeto and pods will be fine without sand.

To me it's less work, I only clean it once or twice a year.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Adding rocks and sand to sump will not minimize need for sump cleaning, it will greatly increase it. I used to have a bunch of live rock in my sump but when i went to clean it it would make the water look like chocolate.Its a major detritus magnet.

I have since started a new tank and no rocks in this one. A filter sock will minimize cleaning of the sump.

Only reason i would add live rock to sump is if you want to make the display look less cluttered and keep a good amount or rock hidden from display. Or you want the extra biological filtration. If neither of these is your goal skip the rock.

Filter socks also catch many pods in your tank as they circulate. Of course it became nasty chocolate milk, it was doing it's job.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

i see, so its matter of balancing each component out.

good thing I havent started my new tank yet. I will reconfigure it. 1st compartment will no longer have LR, second compartment will have a few LRs, it will also serve as fuge for pods and chaeto, definitely going to light it for the chaeto. third will remain the same.

My first section of my sump is the return water from the tanks overflow and my chaeto. My second section has LR, LS, Skimmer, my third section has my return pump. It works very well I might add. Proof in that I'm successfully keeping LPS, SPS softies two BTA's and fish. All healthy happy and thriving. The SPS aren't as thriving as my other inhabitants but they are doing well and growing with good PE and color.

There are no "rules" as to how to do this. Remember the day's of bio balls and how great they were?

 

[CStrickland]

In many setups you have a pretty strong current in the display, which slows a lot in the sump. So all of the poop and leftover food can stay suspended in the water until they reach the sump and then they either get caught in some kind of filter or just settle to the floor. If there's nothing on the floor you can easily vacuum that stuff out, if there a bunch of rocks and sand you can't. Some people like to have a lot of worms and critters and stuff in there, the idea being that they will keep consuming poop until all the nutrients are used up.

If I had a fish that needed a lot of pods to live I might turn my sump into a place where food would collect for them and they could breed safely, but I don't. If I found that my 3/4# per gallon of rocks wasn't keeping ammonia at zero I might add more to the sump, but I don't. So for me it works nicely to just use it as an out of the way place for my ugly thermometers and filtering equipment where I can dose stuff and add fresh water that it will get mixed in before it hits the display water. IMO too many detritovores is an indication of excess nutrients.

It's one of those things where first you decide what the issue is, and then you choose the tool you'll use to fix it. My issue is real estate, not pods or filtration.

 

[Fish Keeper82]

Filter socks also catch many pods in your tank as they circulate. Of course it became nasty chocolate milk, it was doing it's job.

Its all personal preference. I know that unless you lack rock in you main display the "added rock" is not of great advantage. Im also sure if you took that extra rock out of your sump your system would be just fine.Ive tried both and i prefer no lr or sand in sump.

My point is that it is not necessary or advantageous unless you lack rock in main display.
But at 6.99 a lb I'm sure LFS everywhere will want you to add more.

 

[digitaljepoy]

Thanks for all the inputs guys. I'll definitely ditch the sand bed idea but will still go for the LRs, probably put a few in the 1st compartment and 2nd compartment. I plan on getting the LRs out when its time to clean the sump, rinse them and then put them back in.

 

[digitaljepoy]

Its all personal preference. I know that unless you lack rock in you main display the "added rock" is not of great advantage. Im also sure if you took that extra rock out of your sump your system would be just fine.Ive tried both and i prefer no lr or sand in sump.

My point is that it is not necessary or advantageous unless you lack rock in main display.
But at 6.99 a lb I'm sure LFS everywhere will want you to add more.

I do plan on putting LRs in my DT for the corals and setup caves for the fish to hide when its time to sleep.

 

[ryeguyy84]

Thanks for all the inputs guys. I'll definitely ditch the sand bed idea but will still go for the LRs, probably put a few in the 1st compartment and 2nd compartment. I plan on getting the LRs out when its time to clean the sump, rinse them and then put them back in.

don't forget to rinse in saltwater. . . you may have already known that but I figured i'd throw it out there.

Happy reefing!

 

[digitaljepoy]

don't forget to rinse in saltwater. . . you may have already known that but I figured i'd throw it out there.

Happy reefing!

Yep, thanks for reminding me.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Its all personal preference. I know that unless you lack rock in you main display the "added rock" is not of great advantage. Im also sure if you took that extra rock out of your sump your system would be just fine.Ive tried both and i prefer no lr or sand in sump.

My point is that it is not necessary or advantageous unless you lack rock in main display.
But at 6.99 a lb I'm sure LFS everywhere will want you to add more.

I don't lack rock in either place, you can do like I do and get rock for $2 a lb on Craigslist. I find it all the time and if I need some I go see what they have.

 

[ericarenee]

My Display Tank is 180+ Gallons. With about 350 lbs of live rock . NO SAND Bare bottom. I have a Huge Refugium that has 4 5 inch tall trays that fit in the bottom of it. All full of sand With Caulerpa Growing on top if it. The sand is full of pods worms and so on. What i do is Every 3 months i will move the plants out of one of them and Pull that tray out and rinse it with RO/DI Water. Put it back then move some of the more mature plants back to it. This way makes maintaining the sand bed much easier. You can do this with a Large bowl of some kind in a smaller Sump or fuge.Just be sure you have some type of Mechanical filtration between the sand bed and the return pump or the sand will get in it and grind the impeller to a shorter life.. I will also add with enough live rock you can do it with NO SAND at all But would lower the amount of marine like your tank can sustain..

 

[Fish Keeper82]

I don't lack rock in either place, you can do like I do and get rock for $2 a lb on Craigslist. I find it all the time and if I need some I go see what they have.

You fail to see the point. I don't care how much you pay for it. It is EXTRA and not needed. I never said you lacked. I said unless you lack rock. I was clear in this by saying your tank would be fine without it.

Its not in the OP best intrest to crowd his sump with rocks that he won't clean. He has admittedly said he rushed his past setup doing just about everything wrong, why add to his maintenance when he does not need to.He will not be as diligent as you with maintenance.

I think he made a good decision a couple of rocks won't hurt a thing and won't be bad to clean. Its only when you crowd the sump with it that it comes a pain.
Good luck digitaljepoy

 

[Dkuhlmann]

You have your opinions and I have mine.

I'll ask you this, how much is enough rock? Also do you know that denser rock (heavier) has less filtration properties? Do you know how much volume of rock (surface area) it takes to properly support a biofilter sufficient to house fish, or fish with LPS, fish with Softies, Fish with SPS or Fish with all three? Don't forget to try and figure out how many fish an x gallon tank can support based on what? Water volume or filtration?

Granted my way might be overkill, but is your sufficient and if it is for what inhabitants and how do you measure this?

No I completely see the point, you are only trying to prove me wrong and I can prove I'm right by the results. Oh and my diligence in cleaning is only once or twice a year. I do wc's every two weeks and could probably go to less often but I want the nutrient addition from the salt mix.

I think you are even accusing me for trying to give false information. All you are succeeding in doing is confusing the OP.

I can promise you that you will learn more by listening and grasping a different concept than what you are use to. I've been trying to share information with you but all you want to do is argue.

I'm done with this conversation. Good luck and good day!

 

[Fish Keeper82]

You have your opinions and I have mine.

Is all that needed to be said if you truly did not want a response

I think most are in agreement that crowding your sump with rocks is not a good idea for a novice that is less likely to keep up cleaning maintenance if only once a year. This is an open discussion forum I am not arguing.
At the end of the day EXTRA rock is not needed or would all have 30 gal display tanks with 500 gal sumps of rock. Its that easy.

Good day to you sir :wavehand:

 

[digitaljepoy]

guys, theres really no need to argue, if your setup works for you then it works for you, i am really just here to hear out your opinions since I dont really have the proper experience yet and I dont want to fail my second tank.

I am very thankful for all your post.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

digitaljepoy, it's all about us having a passion for the hobby and believing that ours is the best way to do it. Both are right, neither is wrong and both have their merits and mine is overkill LOL

When I owned my construction company we didn't build with 2x4's, it was all 2x6 construction!

 

[JMorris271]

When I owned my construction company we didn't build with 2x4's, it was all 2x6 construction!

You should have been using 2x8's. :lol2: J k.

 

[digitaljepoy]

yeah, i have read a ton of threads already about having a sand bed or not in the sump, some guys say they do it, some dont and not one say that it isnt working for them. Personally, id like to maximize the full potential of a sump as a filtration system. Im not lazy, if the sump needs cleaning, i would do it even if there are a ton of sand in there, but I figured, I dont have the right experience and knowledge yet so its best that I take it slow by going LR only on the sump, then build a fuge and then possibly put sand later once im confident with my skills.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

yeah, i have read a ton of threads already about having a sand bed or not in the sump, some guys say they do it, some dont and not one say that it isnt working for them. Personally, id like to maximize the full potential of a sump as a filtration system. Im not lazy, if the sump needs cleaning, i would do it even if there are a ton of sand in there, but I figured, I dont have the right experience and knowledge yet so its best that I take it slow by going LR only on the sump, then build a fuge and then possibly put sand later once im confident with my skills.

That's a good solid plan :thumbsup: When I clean mine I completely disconnect it from the pipes and have a buddy help me pull it out after I've siphoned out the water and removed the rocks. Take it outside and rinse the sand clean using ro di water.