New to me 90 gallon system

[tyler91913]

Just thought I'd share my recent acquisition with this crowd: It's a 90 gallon that I picked up yesterday. Moving this to New Haven from Fall River, Mass. made for a long day. Anyways, it's up now and I've got questions for you guys but first I wanted to show it off.

Stock list is (in order of my appreciation of them):
Yellow Tang
Hippo Tang
Black&White Damsel
False Percs (x2)
A smattering of hermits, snails, sponges, filterfeeders, and a huge, ugly brittle star

Corals:

Xenia
Green star polyps
Various zoas and palys,
Frogspawn
Green hairy mushrooms
Ricordia mushrooms
Green, red, yellow mushrooms
Some kind of birdsnest (not pink, but brown with little purple polyps)?
Some kind of millepora?
Cat's Paw?
Some kind of pokerstar montipora?
Green Montipora Plate
Red/brown Montipora Plate
Some other, smaller plate corals (one is white/green with purple polyps, one is yellow with purple, one is yellow with orange)

[If you'd like a piece of green or red plate coral, you can have it. Four or five nice-sized chunks fell off in the move. I'd be happy to give them away if you want to come pick them up.]

Equipment is all at least a few years old.

Lights: Coralife 2x250watt MHs, with PC actinics and LED nightlights
Sump is a 30gal tank with a compartment for a carbon sock, one for the skimmer, a fuge with DSB and macro algae, and a return chamber)
Skimmer is an Aqua Euro USA--not sure what model, but it's a pretty decent size.
Koralia circulation pumps--not sure the sizes, but I'm impressed with the flow

I'm going to try to put up some pics, but I've never done pictures on RC before, so it may involve some trial and error.

 

[RTMA]

Looks like a real good start. Gratz on the new tank. Transferring all this in one day is impressive!

 

[tyler91913]

Thanks Joe--it was a lot of work, but I think it's going to be worth it.

 

[scolley]

Wow! Great acquisition! Congrats!

Do did we scare you about that 55g? I thought we came to the conclusion that it would be OK.

With a full, living reef like that (how did you move that?) you're going to need to start managing Cal, Alk, and Mg - at the very least. Plus regular top offs so your salinity does not spike. Plus water changes.

So, do you have an RO/DI unit? If not I'd put that on the immediate list. Recommending a 5-way deluxe system from Bulk Reef Supply (BRS). Great value. Good unit.

And what about 2-part? Assuming that's how you will be dosing Alk and Cal. If so, BRS has a great 2-part package that includes MG. But for a 90 it could get spendy. If so, you'd be well advised to take a look at "Randy's Recipe" here on the forum. It's cheap and LOTS and LOTS of people use it successfully.

Finally there's salt. IMO I'd find out what salt the person you bought the tank from uses, and stick with that for a little while. The move and change will cause some changes in the corals, and eliminating the change in salt (in the short term) just reduces the possible culprits for any problem. So I'd leave shifting to a different salt for later, if you are so inclined.

Congratulations reefer!

 

[RTMA]

Some kind of birdsnest (not pink, but brown with little purple polyps)?

Most likely some type of Phonape birdsnest.

Be watchful of the xenia (and other soft corals ie kenya trees / colt coral / leathers), it can take over your tank.

When you are ready, here are some things that make my reef easier and more enjoyable.

Reef Controller - I use a Reefkeeper elite - but the lite version is a nice start (Apex Jr has just been released too) - It can manage your lights, heater, cooling fans, topoff and everything you can think of.

Carbon / GFO reactor - keeping DOC and phosphates low help the growth of your corals and fish. imho - with sps (your caps) and leathers / soft corals - the carbon will remove any chemical warfare going on between these types of corals)

Grounding probe - Adding one of these will keep your tank safe from electrical shorts.

GFCI outlets - These will protect the tank and you from electrical shorts.

Battery Backup or battery powered air pump - If you lose power you will want a way to add oxygen to the water and possibly maintain heat for a longer period of time.

Just a few things to think about. Sometimes it can get overwhelming, but you have a great start right there.

also - btw - you want top be sure to be extra careful when handling Zoas / Palyathoa corals as then can be poisonous

Hope this helps!

 

[srusso]

We must have scared you away from the 55 gallon! Nice pickup!!
I would like some plate coral, if you would bring a frag to the next reef meeting?

Your totally a "full on" reefer now!

 

[tyler91913]

thanks guys,

Steve - I do have an RODI unit, thanks. Yes, maintenance is definitely going to be taken up a notch. I'd actually like to get rid of the SPS for at first, so I can ease into the dosing regimen. The guy I bought it from gave me a bunch of additives in Kent bottles, so I'll be using those until they're gone, then maybe transition to two-part (or Randy's Recipe--thanks for turning me on to that).

Joe--thanks for the tips. Keep em coming. I've looked at the tank controllers, but they seem like a lot of money as an initial outlay, and you still have to buy add-ons for just about all the cool functions they're capable of. So it's not just the initial 3 or 4 or 5 hundred dollars, but an extra 50 for this, and an extra hundred for that--soon the controller would be worth more than my tank! But then, on the other hand, everyone who has a controller seems to love it. Well, we'll see.

My immediate challenges are:

1. to make the system run quieter. Right now, it's keeping my living room constantly over 50 decibels. I've been looking into Herbie overflows, quieter return pumps (currently it's a noisy Rio 3100), and skimmer silencers.
2. To hang the light. Right now it's sitting on what I think is a homemade canopy. Not very pretty and it holds the heat in.
3. To bring the temperature down (currently swinging from 81 in the mornings to 84/85 when the MHs get going in the afternoon). I don't want to buy a chiller, so I'm just going to have to be less stingy with the AC in my living room. Also, changing my return pump to something drawing fewer watts may make a difference.
4. To re-aquascape so that I'm getting more flow across the bottom of the tank. I chucked the old sand and am running it bare bottom, but there are too many dead spots for my liking. If I look up from under the cabinet, I can see piles of sand/detritus that fell from the LR. Obviously, when I put it all in there, I was in kind of a hurry to get the corals and fish out of their moving containers and into a home. The consequence was a lousy aquascaping job. It will also be easier to do this if I get rid of some of the corals (e.g., my SPS, as I mentioned above--anybody want it? You can have the little pieces of cap for free, or make me an offer on the big pieces of birdsnest, cap, cat's paw, and the one that looks kind of like a cactus covered in little purple polyps)

Finally, after talking to srusso (I forget, is your real name Steve?) I am intrigued by the algae scrubber concept. I will try to incorporate that when I build my new herbie overflows.

 

[scolley]

IMO - you want to look into an APEX JR. It's a small investment and expandable. And every time you go to radio shack or home depot, and spend $20 on a timer to turn your lights (or whatever) on and off, you can just tell yourself that the money could have gone toward a controller that would have been much, much better at controlling that piece if equipment.

They ARE the single best non-essential piece of reef gear. My 2 cents.

 

[scolley]

Also - go look at the fans on Marine Depot. One or two of the basic $20 fans will do miracles in cooling your tank down if positioned over the sump. But then it'll need something to turn them on/off based on tank temp. Oops! Here I am recommending an Apex JR. again.

They'll also turn off those metal halides if they get the tank too hot.

 

[tyler91913]

srusso--i'll for sure bring you a frag to the july meeting.

Steve--fans on the sump sound like a good idea. I've already got two caged 4 inch fans sitting on the canopy at the back and timed to come on with the halides. Is that the kind of fan you meant for the sump, or were you talking about one designed specifically for aquariums, like the ones that hang on the rim and blow directly on the surface of the water?

We'll have to see about the apex jr. If I did get it (it looks to cost about $150 for just the controller), what all would I need to get in addition to set up an ATO? After temp control, that looks like its most appealing feature right now.

 

[scolley]

That $150 on the Jr is for the controller, temp sensor, and 4 controllable outlets. Other stuff - like more outlets is available as add-ons. It's a wicked cheap way to get into the most popular brand of controller.

I don't know how to do ATO with an APEX (could figure it out). But this thread will point you to a "unofficial" manual for Apex controllers. Put together by a hobbyist here, it's a tour de force for explaining how to use Apex controllers. Toward the end is a detail write up - with illustrations - on how to build and ATO and control it with an APEX.

And while I AM a Neptune Systems controller zealot (have 3, 2 in use, 1 reserved for emergencies), I do not use them for everything. That's because I'm also a Tunze Osmolator ATO zealot. Not the most popular ATO system because people usually figure they can DIY something cheaper. But for $200, it would be mighty cheap to build something more reliable. You should watch this short Osmolator video. Bottom line - I control everything I possibly can. But I don't control everything with a general controller like an Apex. Some things - like the Osmolator for ATO - do it better themselves.

But all that is just my opinion.

 

[scolley]

This is the specific fan I'm referring to. I've tried others, but this one WORKS. It's a beast. And it does not seem to be bothered by salt creep. For a 90, I suspect you might need a couple. And they still will not work as well as a chiller, or as well as just raising your lights. But they will help a whole lot. Read the reviews on the page I linked to.

However, fans cool by evaporating water. So if you put on fans for cooling, you'd better have that ATO problem worked out because on a hot day you're going to evaporate a decent amount of water, and without an ATO your salinity is going to spike.

Welcome to reefing: mo' money, mo' money, mo' money!

 

[RTMA]

There are quite a few options for a stand alone ato. The Osmolator is of course on the top end. Other options are the JBJ, which I think alot of people use. The Reefekeeper lite can do this but you do need the kit that includes the SL1 and a float switch. Or a stand alone option like autotopoff.com offers (44 shipped for the basic single).

The controller aspect is the key for heating & cooling as it determines, based on temp, when the fans need to go on. You can certainly still use this feature and manually top off your tank, it would just swing your salinity a bit each day and more. You still do your top off each day, but the temps swings will stabilize.

That investment in a good controller is steep, but like Steve, I agree that it is the one non essential piece of equipment that gives me the greatest piece of mind.

It might seem steep now ( as it was for me when I started too) but as your system grows and you start adding more expensive corals - it becomes a cost effective tool for protecting your investment.

But for now - enjoy your tank!! - don't worry about these things - just plan ahead for it.
Just because we use them and are big proponents of them - doesn't mean you can't run a successful tank without them. Each reefer goes through stages - at the beginning - doing top offs, working on temperature management, cleaning you skimmer cup, etc are enjoyable parts of the newbie experience. After a few years, or months, you may tire of these "chores" and look to automate them (i have a swabbie for chrissake!). This is where a majority of the ARKSC members are.

This is a good thing - because EVERYTHING you are going to face has been faced, analyzed and resolved by at least one of our members (and more than likely multiple different ways).

 

[tyler91913]

Okay. I've got the Apex at the top of my wish list. I'm just going to take a few weeks to let my bank account inhale before I blow it out again.

 

[tyler91913]

Here's a new problem-- there has definitely been some bleaching in the birdsnest and the cat's paw over the last 24 hours or so. I looked at some pictures from when I set it up and I am worried about how fast it is spreading over the rest of the colony. What is the most likely cause?

As far as I know, parameters are all as they should be (Nitrates less than 5, Nitrites 0, Ammonia 0, Ph 7.8, Calc 400-450, I don't have a test kit for Alk, so can't say about that one)
Temp, as I said before, is swinging from 81-85 with the summer heat. I've now got fans blowing now across the water surface of my sump and DT, so hopefully that's enough to counteract the heat from the halides.
The affected part of the cat's paw was sitting right in front of a powerhead, so I moved it just now to a new location. We'll see if that makes a difference.

Any other things I could check on or worry about? I'm hoping that they're just stressed because of the whole-tank move on Monday, and that they'll bounce back soon. Let me know if you've got ideas for me--other than getting a reef controller to moniter my temps--I'll be on that soon

 

[RTMA]

Direct flow will certainly peel the flesh from sps. I imagine it is the stress from the move and the fluctuations as you try to get your tank stable. Sps can be tricky, stability is the key. Also you want to get a alkalinity kit, it is one of the most important parameters to measure and maintain.

 

[tyler91913]

Thanks Joe--I did end up finding an Alk kit in the oodles of gear I inherited with the tank. Measured it, looks to be on the low side (it's hard to tell with this test kit--the water came out yellow, and the color scale on the reference card went from yellow to blue, without a really clear middle target zone), so I added a dose of a Seachem Ph buffer that promised to raise Alk along with it. Will test again in the morning.

 

[thefuz]

I have a new 90 as well, so if you're coming to the July ARK meeting - you'll see it in person!

I have a scrubber that seems to be going well thus far. Nitrates were steady at 10 for a few weeks after my cycle and they were at 5 when I tested last week. Scrubber's been going about a month. I believe the nitrates are coming down slowly due to phosphate limiting, but that's just a guess (PO4 is at .015ppm).

Regarding the MH, you may want to try lowering your light period. Not sure what makes your SPS more angry; temp swings or less light. You'll have to play around with the balance to see what fits. I have no direct experience with SPS yet, but I've read quite a bit. My tank swings 2-3 deg since I'm on about 4 hours with my MH. However, I only have LPS/softies to deal with at the moment.

I have an APEX with a DIY ATO plugged into a breakout box. The ATO stuff is from autotopoff.com. It's pretty easy to set up/program, but the all in one systems are very good as well (the Tunze seems to be the Cadillac). I did ATO manually mornings/nights before I set up the ATO and my corals haven't seemed to care - how rude! I also dose 2-part manually which has kept up quite nicely with Alk and Ca (again, that's 2x per day). I'm kinda in the honeymoon period with the reef though, so it's getting extra attention w/out much complaining from my generally lazy ***.

 

[scolley]

so I added a dose of a Seachem Ph buffer that promised to raise Alk along with it.

Just as an FYI - about the only thing worse than having an out of range KH (alkalinity) is changing it quickly. Not sure what range you are targeting, but I would not move it more that .2 degrees a day.

Also - as I mentioned in my IM - Birdsnests in particular can be sensitive to high temp swings, sometimes showing the symptoms days after the event.

 

[tyler91913]

fuz--thanks for the comment! I'm looking forward to seeing your tank, scrubber, and the ATO you've hooked up to the Apex. And the inhabitants of the tank too, of course! Thanks for hosting the meeting.

Steve--thanks again for all the attention and advice. I appreciate the PMs yesterday. You've got me sold on the Apex...I think with its temp-balancing abilities, I can justify moving it from the "most desirable non-essential piece of equipment" category to the "essential equipment" category.

KH seems to have climbed slightly since adding the Ph buffer. Today I'm putting my living room AC on a timer to come on with the halides. But already, just by putting these fans on the water surfaces, I managed to rein in the swing. Yesterday it went from 81.0-82.8.