New wavemaker- awesome!!!

[golf nut]

Hi all
As you can imagine its been a little hectic, the 8 ways will be ready to ship in less than 4 days, the 4-ways will be close behind by the middle of next week, and the revolutions both in 1/2 and 3/4 can be expected to be ready by the end of next week in all versions, please accept my apologies if I get a little behind, it has been a little overwhelming.

I am a strong believer in listening to what you say, I don't expect to have any issues with the product period, I am open to suggestions and improvements and welcome feedback, there is no such thing as a stupid question...
I learn daily from what I read, and hear, this is why I decided to upgrade the motor, unlike Ford I don't plan on any recalls.

Feel free to ask questions, and suggest improvements,the 45 degree nozzle was one of the simplest and best ideas I have heard and is already being offered.

thanx again to all who participate on improving what we have.

Paul

 

[musicsmaker]

About the SCWD - they create head loss, "have to be cleaned like every other month", and leak. The head loss is a good point, but any plumbing has the potential to leak, and everything must be cleaned once in a while.

Seaswirls - no argument. If I had to choose between the 8-way unit and 8 seaswirls I would get the 8 way unit. Glad I don't have to make that choice though!

Someone explain why 379 is expensive?

To me, it's not about what it does. It's about what it consists of. I think the product is great, but not for $379. The design, at least IMO, looks too simple to justify the price tag. Is the material that expensive? Machining costs THAT much?

 

[asmujica]

DoesnÃ"šÃ‚´t the motor have the potential to get rusted?

How long has a unit been runnning?

 

[MadTownMax]

Creade - check with paul about the 4-way version 3 that INCLUDES revolutions, it's not as much as you might think, but I respect Paul's business decisions, so I will not post the price that he sent to me.

Musicmaker--

find a motorized ball valve under $200, the rest is gravy.....

I've put in my request for a system, now it's just a matter of time

 

[Gujustud]

What type of motor is that?

 

[AcroSteve]

Can the revolutions be dissasembled for cleaning?

 

[GreshamH]

Music Maker, do any perscription drugs really cost that much to make? Some are $20-$30 a pill and cost $.03 to make. The product may not be horriably expsenive to make, but aquiring the gear, doing the research and all the business exspenses sure add up quickly. The funny thing is, I thought the $379 price tag was a steal. I wanna get these for our holding systems, it's really hard to not get dead spots in 8'x4'x1' coral flat!

 

[mmoss]

4 way drawing

4 way drawing

Paul,

I know you are busy busy. I still don't think I saw any drawings on setting up the 4 way like you did with the 8 way. I am designing a system and that would really help me visualize what you can do with the 4 way.

Thanks much!
Max

 

[Creade]

MMoss.

I think setting up the 4 way is really going to depend on each individual system.

However, Paul and I have talked alot lately and I have 2 recomendations for you.

1.- Put one revolution in each corner of the tank, running the PVC along the top trim and securing the 4 way behind the tank.

2- Put one revolution on each back Corner, and then plumb 3+4 to a spray bar in the back that can be switched on for night motion or feeding.

It all really depends on your tank.

Im going over more and more ideas for my new system. I just cant make up my mind either!


Creade

 

[MarkS]

To me, it's not about what it does. It's about what it consists of. I think the product is great, but not for $379. The design, at least IMO, looks too simple to justify the price tag. Is the material that expensive? Machining costs THAT much?

I'm guessing about $30 in PVC and $50 for the motor. A local machine shop I contacted recently charges $66 per hour for the CNC mill. I understand that's cheap. I'm also going to guess that Paul's going to be charged about 2 hours per unit (set up time and mill time rounded up to the nearest hour). So far, with my estimates, we're at $192 in parts and milling. I don't know what Paul is charging for his time, but I assume it's pretty reasonable. I'll guesstimate that the total price, parts, milling and Paul's labor, will bring the total somewhere around $250. That means he's only getting a 1.516% mark up.

Yes, $379 is reasonable.

 

[golf nut]

just to answer a couple of questions.

Yes the revolutions come apart for cleaning, remove 2 screws and its apart, only 3 pieces, 5 if you count the screws.

The lid is sealed with an o-ring, riding in a grooved dia, typical pneumatic application, the driveshaft has a quad seal, hydraulic technology, both are saltwater style.

The motor cannot rust, its zinc and aluminum.

the motor on the 4-Way is an 150 inch ounce motor while the 8-Way has a 200 inch ounce motor, this is 43% more torque than required.

Hope this helps.

Paul

 

[clutchcargo]

Paul, is the gear inside plastic?

MarkS, what you've itemized is the cost of the prototype, the cost to make 1000 of them will be substantially cheaper.

 

[gregt]

The motor cannot rust, its zinc and aluminum.

Both zinc and aluminum corrode, albeit at slower rates than other metals. Many people believe it does not because the corrosion is colored the same as the metal and it is more resistant to corrosion.

I would recommend shielding them from salt spray as much as possible.

 

[Gujustud]

The motor cannot rust, its zinc and aluminum.

the motor on the 4-Way is an 150 inch ounce motor while the 8-Way has a 200 inch ounce motor, this is 43% more torque than required.

Who makes it? Do they make waterproof ones?

 

[MarkS]

MarkS, what you've itemized is the cost of the prototype, the cost to make 1000 of them will be substantially cheaper.

True, but even if I knock off $100, it's still only a 2.53% mark up. Personally, I think anything under 10% is too little to be of use to the seller.

Also, I don't think he's producing 1000 at a time. I get the feeling that these are going to be made as they are ordered. I also thought I read something about custom versions.

 

[clutchcargo]

True, but even if I knock off $100, it's still only a 2.53% mark up. Personally, I think anything under 10% is too little to be of use to the seller.

I'm thinking the unit cost will be something like $25-35. But just like Intel charging $955 for the P4 3.2 Extreme where the unit cost is something like $16, you have to pay for research and development.

MarkS check your math it's actually a 51.6% and 152.6% markup, respectively.

 

[williamrandel]

Personally, I think anything under 10% is too little to be of use to the seller.

I agree with Marks, It only makes good buisness sense to sell them with a reasonale markup. Why does anyone invent something............TO MAKE MONEY. I have no problem with Paul making 100% profit or more. It is his design, he engineered it, and he is producing a product to help fellow reefers. The pricing comparisons have been made already in this thread. IMO if you think it is too expensive, then look for a cheaper alternative to create the effect that you want. Nowhere else do I hear complaining about other products costing too much (ie. ER skimmers). If you want to dance you got to pay the piper.

Personally, I like the design and considering what it allows you to do is regards to alternating the currents, I would have been shocked if the price had been less.

 

[MadTownMax]

Paul,

I do believe you when you say that aluminum does not rust, only iron can "rust". Aluminum forms a extremely thin layer of aluminum oxide when exposed to air, and this ceramic, aluminum oxide is extremely resistant to further corrosion. You also mentioned that the motor you are using is an aluminum-zinc alloy, which is made specifically to stand up to use near saltwater.

For those who still don't believe, maybe you could post some pictures of the motor on your personal unit, in reguards to it's location with respect to your tank, and some close-ups to show the nay-sayers that this really doesn't rust.

I really don't have any worries.

 

[Typhon]

I believe "williamrandel" is right on the money.

If you are looking for a cheaper solution, then look else where. Paul spent the time to design, develop and make the units. Also, I haven't seen anyone one else making a wavemaker unit that is willing to modify and customize their design base on our suggestions ("Reefers").

 

[golf nut]

Hi Guys

I am not going to get into issues on price, but I purchased a further 20 motors today cost me $1600us (thats what you pay for quality)

I would be happy for anyone who will be receiving a unit in the next few days to take it ot any CNC shop and have the individual parts quoted, plust the seals the motor, wiring,capacitors,glueing and assembly.

I have spent $50.000 doing all the R&D on this and other products to be released soon, I am constantly inventing and finding better ways to make things.. it will not suprise me to find someone who can possibly make it cheaper, by cutting a few corners here and there, I just hope he stays around long enough to support you when you need help.

quality is like buing oats if you want good oats you have to pay the price, if however you want to buy the oats that have gone through the horse I can get you a much better deal!

have a great evening guys

Paul