Newbie questions

Somrschool

New member
I've been hunting all over for some basic information on starting up a seahorse tank. I've had large and small marine systems in the past (everything from a 180 to a 12g aquapod, but we're cash poor at the moment and am thinking of a seahorse tank as a "fix." KWIM?

As with all marine life, I'm conscientious. My questions are pretty basic, but I'm not a newbie to marines. So, please help?

I'm a reef tank lover, so, from what I've read so far, does this work?

  • 24" cube tank (about 60g)
  • live rock--anything to be concerned about with hitchhikers?
  • A sump (with what kind of pump/intake to the sump? is a Calfo ctc overflow a good idea?)/refugium for propogating yummies for the SHs
  • Fan worms
  • Corals... softies? Or others? What kinds?
  • Macroalgae... cool... what kind?
  • Heater/chiller as needed in sump to stay under 74 degrees, etc. depending on breed of seahorse

If I do zoas and softies, for instance, can I do T-5's? Do seahorses mind lights?

How do experienced people do flow in the tank? I know it has to be low, so... are CLs good? Vacuuming sand? Have read about the latter, but it goes against all my reef tank experience.

Are more seahorses better? Or just more? If you have only one pair, what else can add interest? Corals? Crabs? Shrimp?

TIA!
Marcia
 
* 24" cube tank (about 60g) -- 60 gallon is plenty big (though I'm confused...24x24x24 is 60 gallon?).
* live rock--anything to be concerned about with hitchhikers? -- Only problem I've seen with hitchikers and horses has been the annoying anenomes that hide out in the rocks, don't know the specific names, but I'm sure most know what I'm talking about. A few pepperment shrimp have always worked well in clearing this, and get along just fine with the horses.
* A sump (with what kind of pump/intake to the sump? is a Calfo ctc overflow a good idea?)/refugium for propogating yummies for the SHs -- Got me there, I run backpacks, including refugium.
* Fan worms -- Have kept many with them, no problems.
* Corals... softies? Or others? What kinds? -- Corrals can be tough to keep if keeping the water cooler for the horses. Personally, I've gone through some hit and miss as far as what does well and what doesn't. I've found leather corrals do great with both the cooler water, and with the horses hitching on to them. Brains have done as well (just make sure with the brains, and all corral for that matter, that they don't have stinger sweepers, as the horses WILL try to hitch to them and get hurt).
* Macroalgae... cool... what kind?
* Heater/chiller as needed in sump to stay under 74 degrees, etc. depending on breed of seahorse -- Many people, myself included, will skip a heater all together. Depending on the environment the tank is in a chiller may or may not be needed.


If I do zoas and softies, for instance, can I do T-5's? Do seahorses mind lights? -- I run a pair of T-5's in my tank for the corrals, horses don't mind it.

How do experienced people do flow in the tank? -- Horses need areas with low/no flow in the tank for resting/sleeping/feeding. That said, they DO also enjoy areas with low to moderate flow as well. Its fun to watch, and they do enjoy it. They play in it. They throw themselves in the flow to get swirled around. They try to swim directly against it. Its fun to watch and seems genuinely fun for them. I used to have the impression that they were too delicate for flow, and they DO need to have places to get away from the flow, but they do also like to have some flow in their tank as well. In my tank, I have a carbon filter, protein skimmer, and refugium flowing at the surface, and one powerhead choked down providing small current about midway down.

Are more seahorses better? Or just more? If you have only one pair, what else can add interest? Corals? Crabs? Shrimp? -- Depends on the size of the tank as to how many, do want to be careful about overcrowding them. With 60 gallons I'd say you could do a couple pairs (though again Im confused with the dimensions/tank size). As far as companions, do be careful in what you get and research them. Horses are slow and somewhat picky eaters, most fish tend to push the horses aside at feeding time, making it difficult for them to eat and causes issues. Also, they tend to be slower moving, some fish tend to stress them and can cause health issues. Crabs can go either way, 'should' be OK, but there are horror stories out there of crabs getting their horses. Personally I avoid them. Some shrimps are OK, i.e., the above mentioned peppermint. Avoid the skunk shrimp as it will perssistantly pester the horses and tend to stress them, and also has the potential for pulling eggs from the males sacks. Dragonettes do good with horses, the scooter blennies do well with eating shrimps along with the horses, some of the more exotics though (target, green, etc) require pods from a fairly long established tank.

Sorry for the run on, hopefully it helped a bit. Long short of it the horses really are neat, but is a trade-off in what else you can keep with them in the tank, with both other fish and the corrals.
 
Thanks! (Sorry about tank confusion... it's 59.8 gallons for a 24" cube... yeah.)

I think you mean aiptasia anemone. Yuck. Forgot about those suckers. Yep; well, we'll get them under control while awaiting ponies! :D

What about sexy shrimp? They are so cool looking!

I appreciate your time with the answers. Good point about temp/corals. Hmmm.

You wrote:

In my tank, I have a carbon filter, protein skimmer, and refugium flowing at the surface, and one powerhead choked down providing small current about midway down.

So, how do you clean the lower part of the tank?
 
[*]24" cube tank (about 60g)
[*]live rock--anything to be concerned about with hitchhikers?
[*]A sump (with what kind of pump/intake to the sump? is a Calfo ctc overflow a good idea?)/refugium for propogating yummies for the SHs
A 60 gallon will be great for 3-4 pairs of seahorses, depending on species, and/or 1-2 pairs of seahorses and some fishy tankmates. Live rock, like he said, aiptasia and mojano anemones and corynactis/pseudocorynactis corallimorphs can be a problem with stinging the horses; as can any large hitchhiker crabs, but, personally, I think that the LR is worth the hassle of trying to get rid of the pests. Another thing that comes with LR is bristleworms, and with the amount that seahorses eat, and the slow-pain-in-the-rear-take-their-sweet-time way that they eat, the bristleworm population can get disgusting in no-time. A well set up elevated feeding dish in a lower flow area of the tank will help with that. I use a modified calfo/coast-to-coast (doesn't run full to either edge of the tank). Works fine. You aren't going to get seahorses in your overflow unless you have really high/turbulent flow and/or problem tankmates. I've never had a seahorse in my overflow, and mine doesn't have teeth. Gobies, on the otherhand, are a different story. An external return pump is a good idea to keep the temperature down.
[*]Fan worms
[*]Corals... softies? Or others? What kinds?
[*]Macroalgae... cool... what kind?
Fanworms are okay, but the seahorses hitching to them does upset them, and they may bail because of it. Additionally, if you plan to keep peppermint shrimp to keep aiptasia under control, it has been my experience that the peppermints just add to the irritation of the fanworms, and may actually go after them. Softies and coral without sweeper tentacles are usually okay provided they can handle the lower temperature, lower light, and less direct flow. For me, this has been a trial and error thing and so far, very few things have thrived long-term, although, "tree" corals (kenya tree, etc.) do seem to thrive in seahorse tanks. Try the compatibility list on seahorse.org http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/tankmates.shtml
As for macro algae, everything is safe, so just add what you like (after FW dips, quarantine, etc.). It is also a trial and error thing to see which algaes thrive in your tank. I would avoid caulerpa sp. for it's tendency to take over a tank and difficulty removing it, but other genus/species should be fine. Depending on the time of year, reefcleaners.org carries a good selection of macros.
Heater/chiller as needed in sump to stay under 74 degrees, etc. depending on breed of seahorse
I do keep a heater (two actually, in the sump) to prevent large fluctuations in temperature between day/night. It also helps with the other fish, inverts, corals, etc. in the tank. Plus, depending on the species of seahorse you keep, IME some species and specimens don't handle going below 70* very well. On the chiller front, I wouldn't recommend you take any species over 74* if you can help it, 76* at most.

If I do zoas and softies, for instance, can I do T-5's? Do seahorses mind lights?
No, seahorses don't mind lights. They mind the heat that comes from really high lighting, but the lighting itself is no problem.

How do experienced people do flow in the tank? I know it has to be low, so... are CLs good? Vacuuming sand? Have read about the latter, but it goes against all my reef tank experience.
CL's are great. But, you want to split up the flow. No direct flow like you'd do in an SPS reef with locklines, etc. Instead, you'll want to make spraybars/diffusers, that have many different exit points for the flow to really split it up. What I have (which is my return, not a CL) are two 1/2" PVC pipes running vertically down the back of my tank, with 7-10 holes drilled in each (I can't remember) in varying directions to run flow across the back wall, up the side walls, and through the rock structure. Keeps a really good solid flow, especially near the spraybars, but disperses it really well throughout the tank so it's nice an gentle in most areas. You do not want areas of no flow. Besides the obvious waste/ammonia/nitrate production of dead spots, it also allows for the growth of pathogenic ciliates and other disease problems for seahorses.
Vaccuming sand - no. I wouldn't. That being said, vaccuming the surface of the sand (i.e. not disturbing the sand, or only disturbing the very finest surface layer) is a good idea. It helps to remove any detritus or algae buildup, and it also can remove any disease organisms growing on the surface of the sand in that detritus, like ciliates, which cause weak snick. It will be less a problem if you use a feeding dish (although that should be cleaned regularly).

Are more seahorses better? Or just more? If you have only one pair, what else can add interest? Corals? Crabs? Shrimp?
More seahorses beyond one pair are just more. They'll interact with each other usually, but they won't do anything any more special if there are more of them (except the males will sometimes display more and/or "compete" for the females) . Crabs aren't a good idea. They like to get the seahorse tails between their pinchers. Take a look at the compatibility list I linked to above for other tankmate ideas. I had a clown goby with mine for 3 years before he passed away this year, and I currently have a rainfordi goby, a scooter dragonette, and a sunburst anthias (the only anthias I'd even try to put with seahorses - they are extremely passive/timid), plus peppermint shrimp, a fighting conch, nassarius, cerith and nerite snails, macro algae, and a very unhappy patch of GSP.

What about sexy shrimp? They are so cool looking!
Seahorse dinner. Sorry. Maybe in your refugium?
 
As for the bottom on mine, I vacuum it out 1-2 times a week.

Sounds like the fanworms are hit or miss for some, though I've had great luck with them. Right now in mine I have 4 kudi, 2 bluestripes, 2 dragon face, 2 scooters, 2 green mandarins, 3 fanworms, 2 peppermints, and some odds and ends corral.
 
I'd suggest starting with just base rock (dead coral skeletal rock) and seed your tank with some carefully checked (and dipped) LR pieces. Everything will come to life with coralline soon enough ... and you can rescue any pods or other wanted critters as they exist the rock being dipped (high salt concentration of about 1.030 seems to work). I have pulled out crabs so small you can hardly recognise them as crabs. They grow of course ... so better out than in.

I'm with Ann ... whilst bristleworms are highly regarded in most reef tanks, they are a nuisance in a SH tank due mainly to a lack of natural predators - and yes the horses by nature of their untidy eating / pooping habits do ensure these populations of worms can get out of control fast.

I'd suggest a good host of cerith type snails (detritus consumers) to compliment the clean up crew. I don't think you can have enough of these snails ...

I also have found seahorse tanks are a lot healthier and vibrant with a good flow right through. Not only will detritus and food remain suspended but good flow also helps to move oxygen around the tank. The only time I have ever had problems with my seahorses was when I had them in a tank that was light on flow. It doesn't take much CO2 to upset them ...

The key is getting the flow without the problems associated with intank powerheads and the damage they can cause (ie. horses will hitch on inlets causing serious injury) ... is finding something that moves water in a broad current rather than the stream type outlets that push water in narrow jets.

For my money, you can't go passed a Vortech - my tank is the same size and I run an MP20 on about 80%. That's a massive 90X turnover. I know that sounds extreme but the flow is so broad it seems to create something of a natural current. The vortechs also come with a foam cover (plus I bought some more) to ensure no tail amputations are possible. I change it daily - takes no more than 2 secs. These pumps are expensive though but of all the intank powerheads I've used, this is the best by a country mile.

Another idea though would be to run a closed loop high powered pump using diffusers at several outlets to move high volumes of water.

The other thing I would really encourage is a good quality oversized skimmer. The HOB types I find tend to produce a lot of micro bubbles (I ran one for 6 months while I was designing my sump / refugium). I now run an internal skimmer in sump rated for 200G. The outlet of the skimmer has a small eggcrate ledge that holds my activated carbon and purigen ... it also completely eliminates the tiny bubbles. I do also have a bubble trap after the skimmer section just to make sure by the time the water goes back up, there are no micro bubbles.

I think if you can create a system with enough flow and good enough skimming, there really are very few limitations to the corals. Of course anything with long sweepers like anemones etc are off limits. I have just started with SPS (rainbow and superman montipora) in my tank and they seem to be thriving. I do run a very powerful LED lighting system though .. a must with SPS.

Feather duster worms are one of my favourites ... I have a small garden of them. The horses hitch on them all the time but it appears the worms are really not that bothered by them. Mind you, if your tank is short of hitches, then this could become an issue.
 
here's a pic showing the back of one of our SH setups (50 gal pentagon). we have 2 main returns plus 3 CL returns (the outermost are on a SCWD so they alternate):

pent_labled_copy.jpg


i wasn't happy with the surface turbulance, so i added a MJ 1200 behind the O/F wall with a Y and 2 1/4" LL flares. i don't use any PH's inside any of my setups (they're ugly and things tend to get sucked into them...like SH tails. if you use them, put a guard on them)

there's also a 1/10 hp chiller on the system and LR in the sump (the tank runs at 74*F).

here's a front view of the tank up and running:

swftankcopy.jpg


HTH
 
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