Newcomer, how to get started

[slaponte]

Hello all.

I am a newcomer to this forums, and have been reading/lurking for a few days. Extremely fascinating!! I would love to have an octopus, but as a modern hobbyist I am doing lots of research on the web before attemting anything.

Here is some background. I am 41 and have had fresh water tanks of medium-small sizes (10G/20G) for the last 20 years. The last couple of years I got more serius and moved to slightly larger tanks (around 40G) with Oscars. Early this year I had a free 37G and converted it to a FOWLR tank. In the process of learning about marine I have found I am not that interested on fish as I am on inverts. I find shrimp, hermits, starfish, etc much more interesting than colorful fish. The only ones I have right now are a couple of percula clowns and a coral beauty I won last night in a raffle (Aquariums club).

I was thinking of starting my first reef, with something around 65G or 72G, may get as big as 125G. Then I ran into this forum. I had not considered octopus since every time I bring it up my "expert" friends tell me how is almost impossible to keep them, etc, etc... reef/fish people tend to discourage you right away.

Start question : for the octo, what size/shape tank? Is it better that it be low/long or tall? How about light requirements? Do you keep the tanks mostly bare (except caves)? What else do you keep in there with the octo?

Or, if you can post a link to a web site with this kind of detail I would appreciate it. Also/or the name of a recommended book.

One more thing. Would love to see pictures of your tanks, not just the octo. Post or send links, to get some ideas.

If anybody here is Miami, FL (or close by, like Broward), would love to see what you got.

Currently at the Aponte Zoo

30 Gal Fresh with two (giant) plecos and some tropicals
30 Gal Fresh with Guramis, cory
40 Gal Fresh with Two Albino Tiger Oscars, Pleco
2 Red Tail Boas (BCI)
1 Iguana (male)
37 Gal Marine "mostly fish" with two clowns, coral beauty, live rock, shrimps, starfish, hermits, snails

The current plan is to give away some tropicals, split the Oscars to the two 30s, and convert the 40 to Marine at home. The 37G is at the office... But as I learn more about marine, I think I really want to start a 65G or 72G at least...

 

[Rudiger]

Im not an expert in marine aquariums or even keeping octos, but I have been very successful at keeping an octopus for the last 3 and a half months. What your expert friends have told you, that it is almost impossible to keep an octo, is very untrue. Here is my current tank setup:

40 gallon, fluval 204 filter, no skimmer yet (you probably should have a skimmer tho, im not sure how i got away with this).

dont worry about lights, octos probably would prefer no lights at all. Of course you want to see in your tank, so just any little floro light from walmart or something for 20 bucks will work.

My tank is a breeder tank, which means it isnt as tall, but has more length/width. I think this is better than a normal tank, since the most octos arent really free swimming like fish, they crawl around on the rocks/glass or bottom. I only recently added live rock. You dont need it, but it helps the system. Provide the octopus with caves, either built with rocks or just pvc pipes or garden pots. Make sure you don't have any heavy metals in the tank, and check your water for copper, that is also deadly for octos and most inverts.

My tank has a gravel bottom, but from what i understand sand is better. Make the tank escape proof, although just recently i found out that some species such as a bimac never tries to escape.

A bimac is usually the suggested species to get first, but you do not always have a choice in species, as many dealers dont know how to ID the species and just sell it as an "octopus".

Check out http://is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/ and look at the in house articles, especially Dont Fear the Raptor: http://is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/octokeep.html

Good luck. Im sure more people will post their suggestions and cover anything i missed.

 

[slaponte]

Thanks! Great info and link.

BTW, what happened to the eggs/babies?

 

[cephalopoder]

Yes octopus can be kept , but they do have some special needs. Some species more so than others. One thing when you order a octopus you are never 100% sure you will get the species you order. There are places though that can give you much better odds than others. In planning for this, you need to consider your tank size. I recommend nothing smaller that a 30 gallon tank. This will be ok for the majority of the common species you will encounter in the trade. Bigger is always welcome and gives the octo more room to roam and bigger buffer against large waste load spikes. If your tank set up consists of filtration inside the tank, you will have a harder time sealing it up in the event you get a species that is prone to crawling out of the tank. It can be done, but with a larger species like O.vulgaris, they will be able to push their way out of a tank that has hang on filtration. With a small species like a pygmy octopus you might be able to get away with some thing make shift. A tank with a sump allows you to provide adequate filtration and still seal the tank up preventing the most determined species to escape, well most of the time any way lol.If you order and receive a bimaculoides then you not only get the perfect first time octo, but one that is not prone to escape.
Filtration can be done a few ways, wet/drys plenum system, live rock, even fluid sand filters. One must be careful what system they choose due to high nitrate build up.
I strongly recommend a system that uses live rock over anything for a octopus. This will not only provide a suitable natural habitat feel for the octopus but also provides excellent filtration in breaking down ammonia and nitrite. I would not recommend setting up any octopus tank with out a skimmer. A large octopus can generate a lot of
waste and the skimmer will remove a good portion of it before it starts to break down. They also do a heck of a job helping to remove ink from the tank should the octopus ink. A way to run your water through activated carbon is also recommended. This will help polish the water and remove ink as well. I consider carbon a must on a octopus system and it should be replaced once a month or a day after a octopus inks in the tank.
Lighting is not really important and there is some reason to believe that strong lighting can be detrimental to the health of certain species eyes.
Water is a important issue to consider as well. I recommend ro/di water and the use of a good salt. My brand of choice is reef crystals. There have been some negative results using cheaper brands of salt. Once the tank is set up, it should be aged 4-6 months before a octopus is added so your sure it is stable.
You should strive to make sure every aspect of your set up as pure and perfect as can be. As I said in the beginning some species are easier to keep than others and there is no guarantee that what you are sold is actually the species you bought with out doing a ID on the species yourself.
If you follow these guidelines you will have a great start at keeping a animal many say
you can not.
chris

 

[Rudiger]

BTW, what happened to the eggs/babies?

The eggs are only a few weeks old and I still cant tell if they are fertile yet. Just waiting with crossed fingers. For pictures of them check out my old post on the octo eggs.

pat

 

[slaponte]

So here are the semblances of a plan : I was thinking to get a 65G or 72G tank and load it with Tampa Bay Live Rock, have been reading lots of good things about them. Then let it run/cycle and stabilize about 3 to 4 months. This also will give me a chance to identify and deal with whatever rides on the LR.

Lights not an issue, got it. Will do on the skimmer, and filtration.

Q) Been in Miami, I notice my tanks stay up in the low-mid 70s to close to 80. Will a chiller be necesary? Any other ways to keep temperature down?

Q) You mention RO + salt. The one we setup here we bought the water from the LFS (.50/gal, 35 gals). Do you recommend against this? The LFS story (do we believe them?) is that they go off shore and collect "clean" sea water. Again, this is Miami, lots of ocean to go about...

and more questions : when it comes to selecting the Octopus, do you just order and wait and see what comes in? Would it be possible to go to the keys and snorkle for one? Are they protected/not allowed to harvest? I don't mean to offend anyone, just asking, ok? The keys are nearby and going out to collect one sounds like an interesting challenge/adventure. For what I read here seems they can be found.

A parting thought. Again, not to offend, but it seems the requirements are very similar to a reef tank, sans the lights. So, after having the octo (due to short lifespan), and IF I decide to do so, most/all the setup would convert to a reef system, with the proper lights and some heat...

Sergio. (Reading and learning as fast as I can...)

 

[cephalopoder]

Q) You mention RO + salt. The one we setup here we bought the water from the LFS (.50/gal, 35 gals). Do you recommend against this? The LFS story (do we believe them?) is that they go off shore and collect "clean" sea water. Again, this is Miami, lots of ocean to go about...

I have never tried this I always mix my own. It would be interesting to try it though.

and more questions : when it comes to selecting the Octopus, do you just order and wait and see what comes in? Would it be possible to go to the keys and snorkle for one? Are they protected/not allowed to harvest? I don't mean to offend anyone, just asking, ok? The keys are nearby and going out to collect one sounds like an interesting challenge/adventure. For what I read here seems they can be found.

You can order a O.bimaculoides from www.fishsupply.com
Any where else its a crap shoot.
You can catch your own. In florida you will most likely collect O.briareus. So you will need to keep a tight lid on your tank.


A parting thought. Again, not to offend, but it seems the requirements are very similar to a reef tank, sans the lights. So, after having the octo (due to short lifespan), and IF I decide to do so, most/all the setup would convert to a reef system, with the proper lights and some heat...

Sure...

 

[Pandora]

Hi, I've still yet to acquire my first cephalopod and I'm researching it also... but just one more consideration, since you like inverts... what about predation? Doesn't that have to be something to think about when setting up the tank, since some species will eat shrimp and occasionally fish? No personal experience either, just something I've been warned about also, and one of the key reasons other people have given me for not keeping octopi in a reef tank. I'm just learning like you and would like some answers on this also (my post is also below "Is this crazy?" about how possible it is to keep a dwarf cephalopod in a refugium).

 

[cephalopoder]

Octopuses should be kept in a species only tank.
They can live with starfish, sea cucumbers, some urchins. For the most part though they provide enough excitement you don't really need any thing else.

 

[slaponte]

Hi Pandora. If you directed the comment to me, what I am thinking is that after I have one Octo, depending on how I feel about the experience I might decide to get another or switch the tank over to a reef. With that in mind, I want to make sure the stuff I get is usable on the long run.

For what I see equipment-wise, I would only have to worry later about lights for the reef, if I decide to go that way. But then, I might just LOVE my octo and never wants anything else ever in my life... who knows.

 

[Pandora]

Good luck slaponte, sounds like a plan and I hope it works out for you. Thanks everyone for all the info on octopi.. one last question: once they settle into a tank, do they produce ink regularly, or only at discrete times when they are alarmed? How toxic is the ink to other animals--I know that the primary purpose of the stuff is as a screen and not a poison, but does it significantly degrade water quality or affect the nitrogen cycle? Thanks in advance.

 

[Rudiger]

I have kept an octopus for a little while now and it has never inked. I have done some stuff such as moving its rock while it was inside that probably she didnt like, but she never inked. From what I understand inking for an octo is usualy a last resort defense. I hear cuttlefish ink more often though. When I was in costa rica my science group was hiking in the rainforest right near the coast. I found an octopus in a tide pool (this is what sparked my interest in octos) and our guide picked it up with the blunt side of his machette. That one didnt ink either.

Im not sure how toxic the ink is. If your tank has a filter with activated carbon in it the carbon can help remove the ink. I dont know the chemical makeup of the ink so Im not sure if it affects the nitrogen cycle. Thats a really good question though. Anyone know??

pat

 

[cephalopoder]

Pandora
Every octopus I have had, has inked at least once.
Casting a light in the ank at night will cause this or any thing that startles the octopus.
My Minic will do it seemingly out of frustration when it hits the glass while swimming. Out of the species I have kept, she inks the most. In the 6 plus months so far She has inked about 10 times for reasons I don't understand. If you use a skimmer and carbon you will have nothing to worry about. The bigest danger is if the ink in a confined space, like a bag or a bucke with out filtration. This can clog their gills and unless water is squirted though the mantle cavity they can die.
chris

 

[Rudiger]

heheh, oops. I have shined a flashlight in my octos eyes quite a few times. Never got any ink luckily. Ill be more careful in the future.

 

[cephalopoder]

When you get your skimmer, fill me in on how well it works after a few weeks. I bet a tank with out a skimmer on it will fill the colletion cup in no time. You would be amazed at the junk they pull out.

 

[Rudiger]

i just posted in another thread that i got the skimmer. I bet it will pull out a whole lot of junk. I remember my friend had a saltwater tank a few years ago (I cant believe he didnt get me into the hobby back then, im angry) and I saw his skimmer was full of junk, and he only had a fish or two and had the skimmer from the start. Then again he rarely cleaned it...

 

[OctoMonkey]

The cuttlefish have all inked at the same time before, normally at feeding time, luckily they stop doing it as much when they get bigger but boy, can they go for it with a black out!!!!!!!

The skimmer i have takes out all the ink in a few hours, try cleaning one of them full of ink! Its helluvamessy!

I only run my skimmer a few days at a time, it is really too big for the tank but really useful when there's an ink cloud
Colin