Nitrate levels through the roof.

Xxero said:
Can you please explain this...

I thought the whole reason for carbon dosing was nitrate reduction???
Click to expand...

it can work at moderate levels(ie 10 ppm). however, higher levels 60-80+, it could take very long if at all, ime! it is better at maintaining levels in mature systems. when trying to reduce very high levels of no3 other factors become involved, including, ime: po4 limiting, snot everywhere, clogged pumps, filter socks, skimmer air intake, etc. coral may suffer with "0" po4, ime.
 
Dkuhlmann said:
Well I am sure about NoPox or I wouldn't have suggested for him to use it. There is a natural bacteria that is in mature tanks that consumes the nitrate and phosphate in our systems but only on mature systems. Once this bacteria has been formed it's no longer necessary to have other ways of export. This bacteria is the reason that so many SPS tanks start having water that is "too Clean" and provides no nitrates or phosphate nutrients for the corals to consume.

I agree the dosing amount isn't quite clear but it is based on what your nitrates are. Mine were high at 80 ppm so I dosed 3 ml per 25 gallons of water total in my system. I've got just under 50 gals so I dosed 6 ml daily for 10 days. Then did a 20% WC and was done. This alone straightened out my nitrate and phosphate issue I described above. Since the amount of dosing depends on what your current nitrates are and from the sounds of it, you need to dose the same as I did 3 ml per 25 gals of water.

NoPox isn't a snake oil it just feeds the natural bacteria that is already in the tank so it can grow and mature to numbers large enough to consume the nutrients naturally. The same way that during the initial nitrogen cycle of a saltwater tank works. This is just the final stage of the tank cycle.

This is not adding a carbon source like sugar or vodka, this is doing what is naturally occurring in your tank. A lot of R&D went into this product, it's worth taking the time to read about it. It's not a quick fix one and done in many cases, just depends on the maturity of the tank and how bad of a problem you have with nitrates. Even with WC's I couldn't get my nitrates below 30-40 ppm but the one 10 day treatment with NoPox got rid of it for me.

It's worth it to have this product and it's not expensive, hell it's cheaper than a bottle of decent vodka that I'd rather keep for personal consumption than getting my fish drunk :D :lmao: Yes that was a joke!
Click to expand...

I also dose nopox and have been doing so for the better part of a year.It works great.I dose 5ml daily for a 90 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump as a preventative measure.I dosed twice that initially when nitrates were around 20ppm,and it lowered them within a week.I broadcast feed twice daily a heavily stocked tank,and phosphates and nitrates continue to read zero.
 
This post from another thread might help. "Ethanol" is the vodka part, "acetic acid" is the vinegar, and "organic C" is the carbon that they are adding to the tank when you dose nopox, or a blend of vin/vodka. The linked thread goes into more detail on the science and also has tips for dosing.

tmz said:
NOPOX analysis and conversions to vodka and vinegar are in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408985&highlight=nopox

Essentially NOPOX is 6 parts ethanol to 1 part acetic acid. It also includes abut 3% methanol and some isoprophol alclohol and perhaps other small impurites . The methanol is likely added to avoid taxation as a consumable liquor.

So, each ml of NOPOX contains approximately : .15 ml ethanol(.3 @ 50% per the recipe) and approximately .025ml acetic acid(.05 @ 50%) . Total organic C is about .175 per ml; the rest is water. Total organic C for 40% ethanol vodka/80proof is .4 per ml. Total organic C for 5% acetic acid vinegar is 0.05 ml.
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CHSUB said:
as someone else said, get another test kit and verify the reading. have you checked your make-up water, are you using a ro/di? vinegar (ie carbon dosing) is better at maintaining no3 than reducing it. i would start with a few large wc and detritus removal and then start vinegar slowly(if that is the route you chose)! maybe reduce the auto feeder to two feeding and stop feeding the nem and corals, they don't need it!!!
Click to expand...

CHSUB, don't you use some kind of nitrate reactor with sulfur? Idk anything about those, but people who use them seem really satisfied. Might be another option for Bent to look at.
 
Dkuhlmann said:
NoPox isn't a snake oil it just feeds the natural bacteria that is already in the tank so it can grow and mature to numbers large enough to consume the nutrients naturally. The same way that during the initial nitrogen cycle of a saltwater tank works. This is just the final stage of the tank cycle.

This is not adding a carbon source like sugar or vodka, this is doing what is naturally occurring in your tank. A lot of R&D went into this product, it's worth taking the time to read about it. It's not a quick fix one and done in many cases, just depends on the maturity of the tank and how bad of a problem you have with nitrates.
Click to expand...

Just so that it's clear... I was the one who took the NMR of NOPOX and I have since done elemental analysis on it (didn't bother to update the thread, it wasn't an interesting result and only confirmed the NMR which was definitive in the first place), but:

NOPOX is exactly adding a carbon source. It's ethanol/acetic acid with some carry along isopropanol and methanol (from their source of denatured ethanol, to avoid taxes).

There is nothing else in there but those carbon sources. I know it works well, I have used it, but it doesn't work any better (or worse) than the homemade version of it.
 
CStrickland said:
CHSUB, don't you use some kind of nitrate reactor with sulfur? Idk anything about those, but people who use them seem really satisfied. Might be another option for Bent to look at.
Click to expand...

yes sulfur denitrator, been using it for 3 years in a heavy stocked 300 fed 5 times a day, very satisfied!!!!:bounce2: keeps no3 around 1.0ppm with help from WCs, and a 28 g fug. however, it is generally something i recommend as a last resort only, being it's complicated and expensive initially. imo, the op, should start with large wc, reduced feeding, and vinegar, if no3 test is accurate.
 
December of 2015 my nitrates were over 100 per sailfert test. I started dosing vodka/vinegar mix and last week they were down to about 5-10. I have a 240 with 30 fish in it and I feed heavy. I will admit I cute back a bit to help reduce nitrates but not a lot. Down to 3-4 times a day. Smaller pinches each time.
It will work, just takes a bit of time. 2 months or so for me.

Corey
 
So I threw in 30ml to the big sump today and I'm doctoring my Kalk stirrer up.

I know some people dose through a large Kalk ATO, so I was wondering if I could put the vinegar in the stirrer?
 
I I alternate kalk and magnesium sulfate with vinegar in 5g ato reservoir. It amazes me how much calcium and magnesium a 60g lps reef eats through in a week!
I also skim wetter... it's all relative. That said, there are other ways to feed the "bennies". Ultimately the onus is on your skimmer working optimally to remove the bacterial bloom you're feeding.
 
Bent said:
How does that work? Like I can put the weeks worth of vinegar in the stirrer?
Click to expand...

Yes. It is that sumple. But I just chose to do it manually daily so I could control the exact amount going into the tank. It truly works very well.

Corey
 
Lots of good input from the group.
Recently I learned about old tank and new tank syndrome. Sounds like old tank syndrome. Rock has lost its critters and pods etc that break down the bad stuff and turn into evil sponges. So you do the water and its right back to bad again.
Grab some pods and get rid of that auto feeder...pellets in my opinion , if used, should be done by hand and each fish gets one a day or two.
Get that rock rocking again!
 
FYI, for the past 4 days I've been dosing 30mls of vinegar daily and doing daily water changes. My nitrates are dropping like a rock and my livestock is starting to look better. My euphyllia is starting to extend again, my nem is reinflating, and so far everything looks much better.

My SPS is cooked though, I have a little bit of the monti left, and the birds nest is all but gone except for a few areas.

Is there any way that these two will survive and rebuild? Or should I start fragging them?
 
Another option that I've found to work quite well is a biopellet reactor (Using ecobak plus or even regular ecobak pellets.) Long term, it's pretty low maintenance and once the bacteria colonizes after a couple weeks or so and starts to consume the excess nutrients, nitrates will start to plummet. Then you just add more as needed. Phosphate will be reduced as well, but once Nitrates get close to 0, they will have a little harder time keeping the phosphate really low. But, if you're growing algae in the sump, that should help keep that part in check. As long as tank husbandry is not neglected, it has made my maintenance process much easier. Corals and fish are very healthy. Only side issue I've noticed is keeping alkalinity around 7-8.5. Too high and some corals start to have issues. Anyway, it's not for everybody, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Cheers.
 
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